What are your electric vehicle plans?

In My Humble Opinion
626

They’ll make some inroads with urban adventure types who might have purchased something like a Honda Ridgeline, I suppose. And people who want their truck to make a statement. But that is a tiny portion of the Truck market. The F-150 is the most popular vehicle in North America, by a pretty good margin. Rivian is positioned well to compete in that market - the cybertruck, IMO, isn’t.

Maybe that’s a smart strategy - rather than competing head to head with Ford and Chevy and Dodge where they are strongest, they’ll pick away at niche use cases. That might be enough for a smaller company like Tesla. Ford sells more than twice the number of F-150’s than Tesla sells all Tesla models combined. So Tesla can do well just taking a small portion of the small truck market.

Also, the Cybertruck when equipped like the F-150 is about $10,000 more, so Ford has a huge price advantage in the low end models. Add in the extra $4500 ‘union’ rebate if that passes. And the 500 mile range of the Cyberreuck only applies to the top end tri-motor version. The dual motor Cybertruck has about the same range as the F-150.

Apparently, the F-150’s range numbers are with a 1,000 lb load, and an empty F-150 long range can go over 400 miles according to early previewers looking at the range indicator in the vehicle. I don’t know if Tesla does the same.

To me, an F-150 Lightning with the ‘toolbox’ generator is an almost perfect contractor truck, unless you need a long bed, But for all those plumbers, electricians, carpenters and other tradesmen who work primarily around cities, the thing is amazing, I think the cybertruck will be a hard sell to such people compared to the other two offerings.

The F-150 with generator would also be a fantastic truck for towing a smallish trailer. And I woildn’t underestimatemthe value of having a ‘frunk’ that size for putting stuff you don’t want in the bed of the truck. Toolboxes, power tools, expensive parts, luggage, etc. Having a giant lockable, drainable storage compartment the size of a normal car trunk is pretty cool.

I totally agree about diversity, It’s good to have such different options, Get them all out there, and we’ll eventually learn ehat customers really want and new versions will adress it. Having three major, very different choices at this point is a great thing.

627

Your information is out of date. Ford sold 158,235 F150s in Q2 2021, and Q3 (which hasn’t been reported yet) isn’t likely to be better. Tesla however sold 241,000 cars total. F150 does relatively better in the US (giant trucks aren’t much of a thing in Europe or Asia), but I’m not sure I’d call that an advantage.

The only Cybertruck price info we have is:
Single motor, 250 mi: $40k
Dual motor, 300 mi: $50k
Tri motor, 500 mi: $70k

And F150 Lightning:
Basic interior, dual motors, 230 mi: $40k
Nicer interior, dual motor, 300 mi range: $52k
Luxury interior, dual motor, 300 mi range: up to $90k

That doesn’t look like a price advantage to me. Especially since, if they continue their pattern with the Model 3/Y, Tesla’s basic interior will be much nicer than Ford’s (though maybe not as nice on the high end, depending on preference). And Ford doesn’t have a 500 mi version. Maybe Ford is low-balling their numbers, but you can easily get past the EPA numbers in a Tesla as well under the right conditions.

I think Ford’s prices are competitive, especially with their UAW discount, but it’s not a $10k difference. We’ll have to see how the options play out. Ford and Rivian are showing off most of their goodies, while Tesla is not, except for the obvious ones like Autopilot.

It is, but note that the Cypertruck has a rollable, lockable, stainless-steel tonneau cover for the entire bed (sloping down from the roof). Those aren’t quite equivalent features; maybe under some conditions you’d want to lock things in the frunk while having the bed open, but on the other hand maybe you have a very large item you want locked up and won’t fit in a frunk.

628

My Ridgeline has this and it is pretty cool.

629

There’s no such thing as a UAW discount.

630

Thinking about a new car for my wife and I have to say the Kia EV6 looks pretty damn cool. A little light on actual specs and I haven’t looked into how available high-voltage DC chargers are in the intermountain west, but 210 miles of range gained with an 18 minute charge is a pretty big deal. A friend has an early reservation for the Rivian so hopefully I’ll get to see that pretty soon. The hype machine for the Rivian has been in overdrive the last 2 weeks!

631

Sure, but don’t expect @Precambrianmollusc to understand what that means.

632

Yeah I saw those kids with their oh so important skeletons and fancy bi valves, swanning around showing off their mineralized shells as if it were something to be proud of. They never did a hard day of grazing on microbes in their life , kids today don’t appreciate the hard graft of scraping a rock with proto teath for a meal, oh and if a strong current was flowing, they would just swim off with new fangled appendages , not a care in the world.

ripples tiny foot at the youngsters
Get out of my shallow warm water sea yah ingrates.

633

I intentionally chose the last pre-pandemic year of 2019 for the data, because 2020 and 2021 are very atypical. For example, fleet sales pretty much stopped, and work truck sales would have slowed dramatically with lockdown. And in 2021 Ford has shut down some F-150 production due to part shortages. So I don’t ever use 2020 or 2021 data as being representative of anything other than what happened during a pandemic.

634

I’m being snarky with my wording of course, but Biden’s proposed EV incentive plan includes an extra $4500 if the EV is made by union workers. And I don’t think there’s any great mystery why the UAW was standing beside Biden at his EV summit while Tesla was not invited. If the bill passes, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to call that the UAW discount.

635

So the pandemic caused Tesla’s sales to nearly double year-over-year, and you expect those to go back to baseline after all this is over?

Anyway, there is a pandemic still going on, and a chip shortage that likely won’t resolve in another year, so automakers that can weather the storm better may end up with a permanent advantage.

636

Any updates from the newer EV owners? Still happy?

637

Well, Wife and I are still loving our Teslas. We had planned to upgrade our garage with some 250 volt outlets, but have found we can keep the cars charged using the 120 volt outlets. The breaker can only handle charging 1 car at a time, so we generally charge hers during the day, and mine at night. By morning, both are usually at 80%.
We’ve made multiple road trips and have found using the Superchargers to be easy and restful.
We’ll never go back to ICE cars.

638

Same here For the way we live and drive, they are absolutely perfect. We have one Level 2 charger in the garage and just alternate charging the two cars as needed. Reliable, quiet, clean, and powerful. And fun to drive.

639

I literally had a picture pop up this morning I took of my odometer (because of the unique mileage # that day) four years ago today. That car has > 60,000 miles on it on it since then.

  1. There’s easily 5-figures more miles between the Toy & her car.
  2. I’ve either worked from home or had a 5 mile (round trip, 2½ each way) commute per day; that’s almost all ‘fun’ miles.

That means 15,000/year on nights & weekends. Until on-the-road refueling improves significantly I’m not a candidate for an EV.

640

You don’t mention your charging situation. If you can’t charge at home, I agree, 15,000/yr is too much for an EV.
If you can charge at home, given your short commutes, it looks like an EV would be ideal for you.

641

Yup, absolutely. We are about 10 months in with our Hyundai Kona EV and still loving it. The last couple of months have been our first winter with it and no problems, through cold temps, a blizzard, and an ice storm. Definitely some loss of battery in the cold, but nothing that has any appreciable effect on how we use the car.

Service costs so far = $0 (one tire rotation, gratis)
Charging costs so far = ~$135 (yes, that’s for 10 months of driving)

We don’t have off-street parking, so I almost never charge at home, which is less convenient. But on the upside, I get subsidized charging at work, so that’s why my costs are so low.

Like other owners here, I will never go back to an ICE car if I can avoid it.

642

Did you read what I wrote? 18,000 (15 was a numpad typo) miles almost all on weekends.

8± weekends of 500 miles, typically to a rural destination, which means even longer for an EV recharge when you include alternate routing to hit chargers. A whole bunch of 300 milers, which means at least one recharge on the road. Doesn’t matter what I can do at home when I’m going to need to hit charging stations so often, especially given the lack of Level 3 chargers for non-Tesla vehicles (I will never own a Tesla EV)

Next weekend will be 700 miles into cold, rural NE, Obviously, next weekend’s forecast might be different but tonight will be 10°, which means range degradation, which probably means an extra recharge during the trip.

643

TL;DR, yes, still happy. I have a funny feeling my previous car will be the last ICE car I’ll own. I still really miss driving stick shift though.

I’m still happy with mine. My mileage is just about cut in half with the cold, but it’s still costs less than an ICE.
If a gallon of gas costs $3.00, in summer $3.00 would get me about 80 miles, now it’s closer to 40.
On the upside, it’s really nice to have heat in the car within about 15 seconds of turning it on and the benefit of being able to warm it up in an attached garage with the door closed can’t be overstated. Especially with the insane amount of Kias getting stolen in Milwaukee. In 2021, there were about 10,000 cars stolen in Milwaukee, of which about 7000 were Kias and Hyundais. It’s bad enough that if you have certain models of those cars, you can go to the police station or a dealership and get a free club.
I have no idea if whatever security flaw being exploited to steal those cars exists (or even can exist) in the EV, but I’d rather someone not break the window to try, especially since the car looks nearly identical to it’s non-EV counterpart.

The only gripes I’ve had are make/model specific and are probably similar for their Hybrid (and maybe fully ICE) versions of the same car.

I have a Kia Niro EV. The tires are awful. If I hit the gas even a bit too hard on dry asphalt, the wheels spin. As you can imagine, it’s considerably worse when it’s raining or snowing or the road is covered in ice or even a fine layer of salt.
The app that comes with the car is horrendous. Doesn’t always connect, doesn’t always send commands properly, when it does work, it can take multiple minutes to connect or send a command. And it’s not just me, the app is widely considered very buggy. And to put salt in the wound, Kia seems to think people will shell out $6/mo for it. Since there’s nothing you can do on the app that you can’t do without it, most people stop using it when the trial runs out.

It has the ability for you to schedule your departure times and the car will be warmed up/cooled down and ready for you at that time. However, it’s very hit or miss if it’ll work or not. For example, my car should be ready to go at 8am Monday-Saturday. In a given week, it’s probably works 3 days and doesn’t work the other three days, and the days are random. It might work this Tuesday but not next Tuesday.
Plus, for some reason, it only works when plugged in. No idea why Kia seemed to think that people wouldn’t want their car heated/cooled and ready for them when they leave work as well.
Integrated into that is their delayed charging. If you have the scheduled departure time turned on, the car will hold off on charging until it feels it’ll be finished charging close to when you’ll be departing.
In my example, I have no departure time set for Sunday because I don’t work on Sunday. However, that means when I get home on Saturday and plug my charger in, the car has no plan to actually charge until early Monday morning. I have to remember to manually tell the car to start charging.

644

Still happy. I’ve had the Mach E for 10.5 months now, and while road trips can be an inconvenience, I’m willing to put up with it for short durations just because I love the car so much. My main complaint is the small amount of hatchback space, which isn’t nearly adequate when taking a stroller plus luggage for four people. Luckily I’m a normal American, so having a second (ICE) vehicle in the family is a no-brainer, and we use that for longer road trips where storage is of concern. And for pulling our trailer. And for carrying bikes, because there’s no provision for a hitch on the Mach E.

645

The frunk doesn’t make up for that? Or do you forget it’s there?