# What are your most unpopular opinions? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 14, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645 "2013-04-14T00:24:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/761 "2013-11-26T23:56:39Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > _“You live in a country with a per capita [income](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita) that’s 7th in the world, yet: life expectancy is [33rd](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy)”_ > > More accurately, the US is tied for 4th. When it comes to life expectancy, 79 vs 83 is not a huge gap that leads me to declare the US as a “brutal” place to live. I used PPP (purchasing power parity) instead of income as what I saw as a fairer comparison. The discrepancy between 4th and 33rd, as opposed to 7th and 33rd, is even worse than the original comparison. I wasnt introducing this statistic solely to establish American brutality, but rather as a fundament where one might begin. > [@](#): > > _“[46%](http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx) of the populace thinks humans were created in the last 10,000 years”_ > > I have never put much stock in creationism polls. It flies in the face of all common sense. I can’t explain why people respond to those polls the way they do, but something must be happening to screw up the numbers. Have you at all considered taking the people in this (and countless other similar polls) at their word when they express their opinions? > [@](#): > > _“and the homicide [rate](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) is approximately four times the EU average. You could start with that.”_ > > You know what, I agree, the US’s murder rate is terrible. But where does the hypocrisy come in? My hypocrisy assertion was more intended in the realm of foreign policy, but I’m glad at least you concede that the American homicide rate is currently a bit disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/762 "2013-11-27T00:07:09Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Have you at all considered taking the people in this (and countless other similar polls) at their word when they express their opinions? No, all religious polls are ridiculous. Just look at the number of people who tell pollsters they regularly go to church compared to actual church attendance statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/763 "2013-11-27T00:17:59Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > The last time I checked Mexico, Russia, Brazil, and South Africa all had worse poverty and far higher crime than the United States so this doesn’t disprove my point. And France, Britain, or Germany never had ten percent of its population enslaved for centuries before being freed only to face continuous legal and social discrimination. You were the one who [asserted](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16876997&postcount=746) two causes of the phenomena I described above: “liberalism” and being “the only major industrialized country to contain a significant historically oppressed minority population”. All of the G20 nations I listed above have significant (by my reckoning, at least 5% of total poulation) minorities who have experienced ongoing and systematic discrimination. If you only want to compare the US to rich countries, I’ve no problem with that; the US will still some out relatively poorly. You were the one who reached for minority populations as an inescapable determinant of subsequent societal shittiness. > [@](#): > > I never said that. And calling Young Earth Creationists “functional retards” isn’t going to change their minds if that’s what you actually want rather than just get fun out of mocking them. Again, re: your assertions, see above. It was either “liberalism” or “oppressed minority” which you presented as a rationale for this lunacy; I went with what I thought was the less offensive alternative. And I couldn’t care less about changing their minds - these people are morons and deserved to be mocked. It presents a very poor reflection of the US on the foreign stage. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/764 "2013-11-27T00:21:23Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > No, all religious polls are ridiculous. Just look at the number of people who tell pollsters they regularly go to church compared to actual church attendance statistics. [This one](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/21329204.html) isn’t religious. You really want me to keep going for more polls? I can do this all night. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/765 "2013-11-27T02:01:18Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > [This one](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/21329204.html) isn’t religious. They skipped Canada, probably because of the dead Jehovah Witnesses piled up like cordwood outside each front door. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/766 "2013-11-27T02:56:26Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > You were the one who [asserted](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16876997&postcount=746) two causes of the phenomena I described above: “liberalism” and being “the only major industrialized country to contain a significant historically oppressed minority population”. All of the G20 nations I listed above have significant (by my reckoning, at least 5% of total poulation) minorities who have experienced ongoing and systematic discrimination. If you only want to compare the US to rich countries, I’ve no problem with that; the US will still some out relatively poorly. You were the one who reached for minority populations as an inescapable determinant of subsequent societal shittiness. And half of those countries are not “industrialized” by which I mean fully First-World countries. Also I wasn’t blaming “liberalism” (considering I’m a liberal myself) but rather certain political tactics of liberalism post-1968. I should have factored in the rise of the New Right as a major component. Considering the US’s black population is 10 percent (not factoring the mestizo population which also is relatively poorer which constitutes another huge chunk of the population), the “historically oppressed” populations of other countries (I’m curious what particular minorities you mean here), are still only a fraction of those in Europe. > [@](#): > > Again, re: your assertions, see above. It was either “liberalism” or “oppressed minority” which you presented as a rationale for this lunacy; I went with what I thought was the less offensive alternative. And I couldn’t care less about changing their minds - these people are morons and deserved to be mocked. It presents a very poor reflection of the US on the foreign stage. I didn’t attribute the US’s high percentages of support to YEC to either “liberalism” or “oppressed minorities”. These sort of attitudes of mockery without actually trying to change their minds isn’t going to do any good, especially considering you seem to think of them as irredeemably stupid (ie “morons”) as opposed to actually changing their minds which would have societal benefits in addition to further enlightening these individuals. Actually speaking of this, this actually relates to why the United States has far higher income inequality and lower life expectancies than other industrialized countries. This sort of abandonment of white working-class Southerners as irredeemably stupid religious fanatics, gun nuts, and racists helped foster the rise of the New Right and the Tea Party while the Democrats increased their support among formerly Republican culturally liberal professional types who are more reluctant to support higher taxes, UHC, and strong entitlement/welfare programs that would ameliote those tendencies you correctly deplore. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/767 "2013-11-27T15:14:26Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > And half of those countries are not “industrialized” by which I mean fully First-World countries. Also I wasn’t blaming “liberalism” (considering I’m a liberal myself) but rather certain political tactics of liberalism post-1968. I should have factored in the rise of the New Right as a major component. Considering the US’s black population is 10 percent (not factoring the mestizo population which also is relatively poorer which constitutes another huge chunk of the population), the “historically oppressed” populations of other countries (I’m curious what particular minorities you mean here), are still only a fraction of those in Europe. Perhaps, then, you should say what you mean the first time; I am responding to the words and arguments you type, not what’s in your head. If you wish to classify on basis of “First World” status (not universally defined since 1991), I will in this case assume that you are referring to those countries ranked as “Very High” by the UN’s [Human Development Index (HDI)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index); of the nations I previously listed, Germany, France, and the UK are all at that level, same as the US (and Mexico, Brazil, Turkey, and Russia are all ranked as “High”; only China and South Africa fail to make this cut). As to what particular minorities I am referring, I suggest you peruse the demographic links I provided earlier. The US is hardly alone, even among wealthy nations, in having significant disadvantaged minority populations. > [@](#): > > I didn’t attribute the US’s high percentages of support to YEC to either “liberalism” or “oppressed minorities”. Those were the only two causes you put forward. Rather than me quoting you again, perhaps you should revisit some of your posts. > [@](#): > > These sort of attitudes of mockery without actually trying to change their minds isn’t going to do any good, especially considering you seem to think of them as irredeemably stupid (ie “morons”) as opposed to actually changing their minds which would have societal benefits in addition to further enlightening these individuals. In the United States in 2013, only the willfully ignorant or the irredeemably stupid could still cling to the notion of an Earth only a few thousand years old. America’s educational establishments have been trying and failing to extinguish this idiocy for decades now, with no evident progress. I do not think my mockery will ameliorate this situation, nor do I think it will worsen it. > [@](#): > > Actually speaking of this, this actually relates to why the United States has far higher income inequality and lower life expectancies than other industrialized countries. This sort of abandonment of white working-class Southerners as irredeemably stupid religious fanatics, gun nuts, and racists helped foster the rise of the New Right and the Tea Party while the Democrats increased their support among formerly Republican culturally liberal professional types who are more reluctant to support higher taxes, UHC, and strong entitlement/welfare programs that would ameliote those tendencies you correctly deplore. Are not these “white working-class Southerners” grown adults? You seem to ascribe their stupidity to a refusal of The Establishment to eradicate their childlike worldviews. That is not the US I have known, where these people vociferously _reject_ a truer understanding of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/768 "2013-11-27T15:18:13Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > [This one](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/21329204.html) isn’t religious. You really want me to keep going for more polls? I can do this all night. Any poll have to do with Evolution is a religious poll because many people believe it’s a religious question and not a science one. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/769 "2013-11-27T15:22:49Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > In the United States in 2013, only the willfully ignorant or the irredeemably stupid could still cling to the notion of an Earth only a few thousand years old. America’s educational establishments have been trying and failing to extinguish this idiocy for decades now, with no evident progress. I do not think my mockery will ameliorate this situation, nor do I think it will worsen it. Actually, Creationism is still being [taught](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_and_evolution_in_public_education#United_States)as factual science in parts of the USA ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/770 "2013-11-27T15:27:12Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Any poll have to do with Evolution is a religious poll because many people believe it’s a religious question and not a science one. I don’t even understand what was the point of your responding to the portion of my post regarding Creationism, then, if you dismiss out-of-hand any evidence I can cite to support my position. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/771 "2013-11-27T15:31:00Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Actually, Creationism is still being [taught](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_and_evolution_in_public_education#United_States)as factual science in parts of the USA This is part of the problem, of course. I was being generous when I referred to the American educational establishment as opposing the blight of Creationism; at the national level, and the state level in the vast majority of instances, this is indeed the case, but as you note, this is subverted by some states and innumerable counties and towns. Just one more reason why I said way back that I think the US blows ass in many ways. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/772 "2013-11-27T20:26:46Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Perhaps, then, you should say what you mean the first time; I am responding to the words and arguments you type, not what’s in your head. If you wish to classify on basis of “First World” status (not universally defined since 1991), I will in this case assume that you are referring to those countries ranked as “Very High” by the UN’s [Human Development Index (HDI)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index); of the nations I previously listed, Germany, France, and the UK are all at that level, same as the US (and Mexico, Brazil, Turkey, and Russia are all ranked as “High”; only China and South Africa fail to make this cut). As to what particular minorities I am referring, I suggest you peruse the demographic links I provided earlier. The US is hardly alone, even among wealthy nations, in having significant disadvantaged minority populations. As I pointed out, none of them equal the United States in the percentage of people who’ve been historically disadvantaged. And its pretty clear from the context and usual use of the term that industrialized countries essentially refer to the fully developed countries of the US, Canada, Western Europe, “Asian Tigers”, and Australia. > [@](#): > > Those were the only two causes you put forward. Rather than me quoting you again, perhaps you should revisit some of your posts. > > In the United States in 2013, only the willfully ignorant or the irredeemably stupid could still cling to the notion of an Earth only a few thousand years old. America’s educational establishments have been trying and failing to extinguish this idiocy for decades now, with no evident progress. I do not think my mockery will ameliorate this situation, nor do I think it will worsen it. That is not the case considering science education (and quality of education in general) is not particularly good in much of the United States nor is there a concerted move to eliminate Young Earth Creationism. > [@](#): > > Are not these “white working-class Southerners” grown adults? You seem to ascribe their stupidity to a refusal of The Establishment to eradicate their childlike worldviews. That is not the US I have known, where these people vociferously _reject_ a truer understanding of the world. Perfectly intelligent grown adults may have some parts of their views be significantly coloured by ideological presuppositions leading them to illogical thinking-consider the many evidently intelligent people who considered the Soviet Communist system preferable to the American model or became advocates of National Socialism. > [@Fuji](#): > > This is part of the problem, of course. I was being generous when I referred to the American educational establishment as opposing the blight of Creationism; at the national level, and the state level in the vast majority of instances, this is indeed the case, but as you note, this is subverted by some states and innumerable counties and towns. Just one more reason why I said way back that I think the US blows ass in many ways. And destroys your case that Young Earth Creationism is solely attributable to the stupidity of people. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/773 "2013-11-27T22:02:12Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > . . . And destroys your case that Young Earth Creationism is solely attributable to the stupidity of people. Correct: a major contribution is the dishonesty of people. ---
**Author:** ![Earth001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@Earth001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earth001)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/774 "2013-11-27T22:12:31Z")
1. I believe that all media such as books, movies, video games, television are all of equal value and not one is a better use of your time than the other. Both have good and bad in each 2. I would like gaming to go mainstream 3. I support eSports 4. I believe video game addiction is a fad ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/775 "2013-11-27T23:20:49Z")
> [@Earth001](#): > > 1. I would like gaming to go mainstream Can it be an unpopular opinion if you’re just parroting current fact? ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645/776 "2013-11-29T00:45:22Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > As I pointed out, none of them equal the United States in the percentage of people who’ve been historically disadvantaged. And its pretty clear from the context and usual use of the term that industrialized countries essentially refer to the fully developed countries of the US, Canada, Western Europe, “Asian Tigers”, and Australia. You seem hellbent on setting the US apart as having some special historical circumstances (as if every other country in the world couldn’t do likewise) to justify its current societal shittiness. You’re wrong in the particulars in this case (as already cited), but even further, you’re wrong in a general sense. Were I a British nationalist I could point to the country’s virtual bankruptcy following WW2; were I French, I could mention being overrun by foreign armies twice in a four-year span around the same time; were I German, I could casually point to the heaps of rubble around every goddamned city from 70 years ago, while mentioning the absorption of the DDR only a generation ago. The fact is - today in 2013 - all four of these nations are wealthy and powerful, while only the US has such miserable societal indicators. > [@](#): > > That is not the case considering science education (and quality of education in general) is not particularly good in much of the United States nor is there a concerted move to eliminate Young Earth Creationism. YEC is certainly opposed at the national level by governmental organs, as well as by the near totality of America’s finest universities, still amongst the best in the world by most reckonings. The second part of your post hardly disproves my general argument. > [@](#): > > Perfectly intelligent grown adults may have some parts of their views be significantly coloured by ideological presuppositions leading them to illogical thinking-consider the many evidently intelligent people who considered the Soviet Communist system preferable to the American model or became advocates of National Socialism. Questions of politics and morality are not in the same realm as those regarding basic scientific understanding. Shorthand example: if I discovered someone in my social circle was a Nazi, I’d think they were an asshole; if I discovered they thought the world was magically created a few thousand years ago, I’d think they were an idiot or a lunatic, depending on their fervency of belief. > [@](#): > > And destroys your case that Young Earth Creationism is solely attributable to the stupidity of people. Um… sure… OK. Whatever you say, chief. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-most-unpopular-opinions/655645.md?page=38)