# What are your opinions about nuclear power? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 10, 2014, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955 "2014-02-10T07:08:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/41 "2014-02-11T03:02:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Are you saying that the half life of the fuel in a nuclear reactor is greater than U-235? > Was there a much smaller amount at Hiroshima? According to the reference below, there was 140 lb (64 kg) of fissile material in the Little Boy bomb dropped on Hiroshima. The average nuclear reactor is going to generate TONS of waste over its life cycle (including, eventually, its core) as anything which comes into contact with or spends any time near that core is going to be considered to be “waste.” It can’t be reused and it will have to disposed of in a safe manner. Reference: [http://tinyurl.com/Little-boy-Bomb](http://tinyurl.com/Little-boy-Bomb) ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/42 "2014-02-11T03:20:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That is about 25 miles from the population center of Little Rock. > It was not a big deal. The major worry was the guys who had been exposed to rocket fuel in the explosion. The warhead was recovered intact and undamaged. [tangent]I don’t know how accurate the book’s author’s information about nuclear weapons is, given the naturally super-secret nature of the trade, but the book goes into rich detail about the history of the various systems in a weapon, discussing failure modes and testing done to determine stability. In that context, it seems pretty amazing that the warhead didn’t at least explode conventionally, scattering its plutonium all over the place. And it doesn’t seem implausible that the thing could have gone off. It was the largest weapon in our arsenal; Little Rock wouldn’t have been happy. One area discussed was safety of “sealed pit” weapons, with the core already assembled; other discussions revolved around the testing done to ensure that weapons were “one-point safe” and could sustain a single point source explosion (starting in one explosive lens) without a nuclear yield (not all could). He mentioned key individuals in Sandia, Livermore, and Congress who tried to get the military to add safeguards to the weapons, but were always told “we’ll commission a study on it” He provides enough background on the infighting between military branches and civilian authorities, the resistance to any kind of safeguards from SAC, to cast substantial doubt on the party line of “the weapon is absolutely safe and could never explode unintentionally.” There is clearly an agenda in the author’s work, but in a world where [SAC kept their highly secret missile codes set to 00000000](http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/11/nearly-two-decades-nuclear-launch-code-minuteman-silos-united-states-00000000/), I don’t buy the “it was completely safe” line.[/tangent] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/43 "2014-02-11T03:22:18Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > According to the reference below, there was 140 lb (64 kg) of fissile material in the Little Boy bomb dropped on Hiroshima. The average nuclear reactor is going to generate TONS of waste over its life cycle (including, eventually, its core) as anything which comes into contact with or spends any time near that core is going to be considered to be “waste.” > > It can’t be reused and it will have to disposed of in a safe manner. > > Reference: > > [Section 8.0 The First Nuclear Weapons](http://tinyurl.com/Little-boy-Bomb) Of course, but will it last longer than Hiroshima? ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/44 "2014-02-11T03:52:30Z")
Love it, especially the violent, uncontrolled kind. But seriously, why are developed countries trying to kick it? Uranium deposits are pretty plentiful in somewhat ‘peaceful’ countries like America and Canada. Technology has progressed enough to fit a small and safe reactor in a corner of a basement parking lot. It’s the only (as I see it) viable substitute for all thermal plants. Arguing for things like solar and wind is just bad math to me. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/45 "2014-02-11T04:04:45Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > California (as an example) is undergoing a massive drought. Since the LOGICAL solutions are off the table (ending California’s artificial agriculture business, reducing the population in the state to far more manageable levels,etc) then desalination is going to be a major part of the water supply in the state’s future. At this point, only nuclear is going to provide the amounts of energy necessary to power the massive facilities which need to be constructed NOW and in the future. California is NIMBY Paradise, there’s no way any new nuclear plants will ever be built. Hell, it’s all but impossible to build ANY power station ANYWHERE even in the middle of the Enron Energy Crisis. And God only knows what type of boogeyman the NIMBYs & BANANAs will invent once desalinization is proposed! > [@ftg](#): > > IWe are still in the brick/too steep phase of building safe, economical, long lasting nuclear power plants. We’ll figure it out eventually if we put some effort into it. > > The biggest hindrance right now is that the people building and running plants are always cutting corners which leads to big problems. Plants need too much downtime. Don’t last as long as they should. Plus there’s that waste storage bogeyman hanging over everything. There are many modern safe designs, but it’s way too expensive to upgrade and/or replace every single power plant. The major problem with Fukushima (aside from building any nuclear power plant in a known earthquake/tsunami zone) was that it’s an older design built in the 70’s, unable to shut down safely when power was lost. And sadly, the Fukushima Disaster (despite causing NO loss of life, regarding the nuclear disaster only) pretty much sealed the deal on a dying industry anyway – we’ll have pocket-sized fusion reactors before anyone forgets the spectre of Japan '11. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/46 "2014-02-11T05:14:33Z")
I’ve been meaning for a while to ask about [these numbers](http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-source.html), to see whether anyone can tell me if they’re off-base somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/47 "2014-02-11T05:37:07Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > What should we have learned from Fukushima? That people have unrealistic expectations of how well we should cope when Mother Nature decides to murder 20,000 people. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/48 "2014-02-11T05:57:16Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > We are still in the brick/too steep phase of building safe, economical, **long lasting** nuclear power plants. We’ll figure it out eventually if we put some effort into it. > > The biggest hindrance right now is that the people building and running plants are always cutting corners which leads to big problems. Plants need too much downtime. **Don’t last as long as they should**. Plus there’s that waste storage bogeyman hanging over everything. Wait, what? How long _should_ a nuclear power plant last? What is actually possible? As far as I can tell, the viability of nuclear power, including mythical fusion power, is hamstrung by this hurdle. You simply cannot make a plant last any longer than spec, because of radiation damage. With the high cost of construction and certification, this really is a huge problem that taints the green hue of atomic power. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/49 "2014-02-11T06:05:48Z")
I am pro nuclear power and suspect in the future the anti-nuclear people will be seen much as the same way as Luddites are today. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/50 "2014-02-11T06:09:43Z")
I think the people of the future will be more like the Luddites of today, and they will look upon us as wimps and lightweights. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/51 "2014-02-11T06:57:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What about the radioactive waste problem, though? No, I don’t mean the radioactive waste from nuclear plants, I mean the radioactive waste from the plants that produce more of it. Coal waste is radioactive, too. If I understand correctly, [fast breeder reactors will not generate nuclear waste -](http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/jul/30/fast-breeder-reactors-nuclear-waste-nightmare)in fact, they will consume nuclear waste. > [@Leaffan](#): > > This just isn’t true at all. The nuclear industry is probably the most regulated industry in the world. > > There are management systems specifically developed for the nuclear industry. In Canada we follow [CSA N286](http://shop.csa.ca/en/canada/nuclear/n286-12/invt/27022422012), and in the US it’s CFR50 [Appendix A](http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part050/part050-appa.html) and [B](http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part050/part050-appb.html), and [NQA-1](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NQA-1). > > Independent regulatory compliance for construction, maintenance and operations is ensured by the regulatory body of the country: [NRC](http://www.nrc.gov/) in the US and the [CNSC](http://nuclearsafety.gc.ca/eng/) in Canada. > > On top of that there are voluntary associations that power plants tend to align with, who also provide independent oversight, and sharing of Operational Experience (OPEX). > > Construction, maintenance and operations are scrutinized by power companies own oversight auditors, who typically do not report into line management, but rather to the board of directors. Then they are subject to oversight by the federal regulator, not to mention provincial and/or state regulators (in Ontario it’s the [TSSA](http://www.tssa.org/)), and finally, since CEOs don’t typically want to go to jail, the plant is usually a voluntary member of [INPO](http://www.inpo.info/) or [WANO](http://www.wano.info/). That’s very good to know. I still can’t help but wonder about the construction and operation of nuclear power plants in corruption-prone areas (China, Russia, Quebec, etc.). They’re not _supposed_ to cut corners or be unsafe, but you pay a little bribe here, a little bribe there… ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/52 "2014-02-11T07:03:03Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Of course, but will it last longer than Hiroshima? Since you can freely visit the Genbaku Dome (which is 160 meters from the center of the air burst) then the answer is, yes. Also, people live and work near where the bomb was dropped and they have rebuilt Hiroshima since then. References: > **[Radioactive waste](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste)** > > Radioactive waste is a type of hazardous waste that contains radioactive material. It is a result of many activities, including nuclear medicine, nuclear research, nuclear power generation, nuclear decommissioning, rare-earth mining, and nuclear weapons reprocessing. The storage and disposal of radioactive waste is regulated by government agencies in order to protect human health and the environment. > Radioactive waste is broadly classified into 3 categories: low-level waste (LLW), such as paper,... [http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/jae/summary/v041/41.4ide.html](http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/jae/summary/v041/41.4ide.html) > **[Hiroshima Peace Memorial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshima_Peace_Memorial)** > > The Hiroshima Peace Memorial (広島平和記念碑, Hiroshima Heiwa Kinenhi), originally the Hiroshima Prefectural Industrial Promotion Hall, and now commonly called the Genbaku Dome, Atomic Bomb Dome or A-Bomb Dome (原爆ドーム, Genbaku Dōmu), is part of the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park in Hiroshima, Japan and was designated a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1996. > The building is a prominent structure that remained standing in the area around the atomic bombing of Hiroshima at the end of World War II. The ruin o... ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/53 "2014-02-11T15:21:54Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > Since you can freely visit the Genbaku Dome (which is 160 meters from the center of the air burst) then the answer is, yes. Also, people live and work near where the bomb was dropped and they have rebuilt Hiroshima since then. > > References: > > [Radioactive waste - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste) > > [Project MUSE - A Symbol of Peace and Peace Education: The Genbaku Dome in Hiroshima](http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/jae/summary/v041/41.4ide.html) > > [Hiroshima Peace Memorial - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshima_Peace_Memorial) “millions of years for spent nuclear fuel” Thanks, nevadaexile. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/54 "2014-02-11T15:28:07Z")
A nuclear power plant that supplied part of my electricity has just closed down. The operators said it was too expensive to continue to operate and would be too costly to modernize. What does that tell you? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/55 "2014-02-11T15:38:33Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Wait, what? How long _should_ a nuclear power plant last? What is actually possible? As far as I can tell, the viability of nuclear power, including mythical fusion power, is hamstrung by this hurdle. You simply cannot make a plant last any longer than spec, because of radiation damage. With the high cost of construction and certification, this really is a huge problem that taints the green hue of atomic power. Not lasting _to_ the designed lifetime (or lasting that long but with huge extra mainenance costs) is a big problem. Take the [Trojan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_Nuclear_Power_Plant) plant. “After sixteen years of service it was closed by its operator, Portland General Electric (PGE), almost twenty years before the end of its design lifetime.” The economics of Trojan sucked big time. It’s still costing PGE to maintain the waste tanks on the site. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/56 "2014-02-11T15:43:50Z")
Arkansas Nuclear One came online on May 21, 1974. It is licensed to operate through May 20, 2034. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/57 "2014-02-11T15:55:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > “millions of years for spent nuclear fuel” > Thanks, nevadaexile. When considering long-term storage places like Yucca Mountain, there’s always talk about what language to use for the warning signs for civilizations 100,000 years in the future. My attitude is – who cares??? The Ancient Egyptians didn’t put up any warning signs outside their pharaoh tombs, did they? Also, I’d like to think there’ll be enough continuity in our current-to-future civilization that the locations of long-term nuclear waste dumps won’t be easily forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/58 "2014-02-11T16:11:33Z")
My late Father in Law, a geologist, suggested that nuclear waste be sealed in containers and dropped in the Marianas Trench where in that couple of million years it work work it’s way towards the mantle. ---
**Author:** ![Peaton\_of\_peat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecae2f/32.png) [@Peaton\_of\_peat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peaton_of_peat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/59 "2014-02-11T16:35:48Z")
I actually work about a block away from a nuclear reactor and more than once I’ve thought “I wish our hot water was secondary/tertiary coolant rather than from a boiler, because this is just ridiculous.” Granted, it’s a 500 kW research reactor rather than a 500 MW commercial generator, but generally speaking I’d rather have nuclear power in my backyard over just about any other industrial system. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955/60 "2014-02-11T17:35:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > My late Father in Law, a geologist, suggested that nuclear waste be sealed in containers and dropped in the Marianas Trench where in that couple of million years it work work it’s way towards the mantle. Careful, that’s how Godzilla woke up. :eek: More seriously: I’ve heard your idea before, but is it even logistically feasable? And what happens if the containers begin leaking? Seems much easier & cheaper to bury the waste in the ground and build a razor wire fence around it, plus a mile-wide moat w/crocodiles & killer squid just for good measure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-opinions-about-nuclear-power/680955.md?page=4)