# What are your thoughts about car non-keys? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 12, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-about-car-non-keys/757207 "2016-06-12T18:54:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-about-car-non-keys/757207/81 "2016-06-17T13:47:27Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > The folk we were discussing this with mentioned several odd situations. I did not attempt to verify any of these. But one couple said they had a device they kept in their pocket, which unlocked the car when they approached, and allowed you to start the car by pushing a button. The said they felt uncomfortable assuming the car locked when they left, because if they tested the door to ensure it was locked, it would open due to the device’s proximity. It depends on the brand, but with most I’ve seen, you can still tap/press an external area of the car to lock it from the exterior, without having to touch the handle to see if it’s locked. You’ll also hear the locks activate. > [@](#): > > Another person related a story where 2 people got in for a drive. A started the car with the fob in their pocket. The drove to point 1, where A got out to run an errand, left the car running, and B drove to another location where she parked and went into a store. After shopping, B realized she could not start the car, because the fob was still in A’s pocket. This is certainly possible, though again, with most vehicles I’ve seen, it actively warns you when the key has left the interior of the vehicle while it’s still running. At least with mine, you’d have to outright ignore the chime _and_ dash alerts (literally telling you the key isn’t in the cabin), to miss it. > [@](#): > > I think they gave a couple of other odd permutations. But made me wonder - how much do customers want these types of “keys” and what are your experiences good or bad with them? I think transitioning from a keyed ignition takes some time, but you adapt and develop habits associated with keyless entry. I think with any new(ish) tech, people tend to try and find holes in functionality, but these have been accepted and are here to stay. > [@Chronos](#): > > I wouldn’t buy a car that didn’t have keyholes at all. An electronic fob needs a battery, and that battery _will_ die eventually. I’d rather my car still work after that happens. The car usually warns you _well_ in advance. Even then, if the key fob is actually dead as dead can get, holding it up to the start button will typically allow you to start the car. On some vehicles, you can even charge the FOB. Your car’s actual battery is more likely to die and leave you stranded. > [@ftg](#): > > 1. Good grief, how long does it take you to use a regular key? As mentioned, what are you saving here??? Saves a few seconds, but also adds a good deal of convenience. Similar to my cell phone, it doesn’t take me a long time to key in a code, but scanning my finger saves me a few seconds and adds convenience. > [@](#): > > 1. They add expense. Much costlier. In some cases, I’d agree. However, most cars built in the last decade+ don’t have basic keys, and instead have some type of RFID ignition system or better and/or remote-integrated setups. A few bucks at Home Depot won’t cover that, while anything from yesteryear that’s cheap and easy is also less secure (which you pick a bone with in a later point). > [@](#): > > 1. They are more likely to break down than traditional locks. Not in my experiences. They have similar reliability to any other small electronic gizmo I own. I’ve seen as many physical keys bend, than FOBs break, just-because. One requires constant insertion and mechanical handling, while the other pretty much just sleeps in the bottom of my pocket or her purse, where we don’t interact with it much. > [@](#): > > 1. They reduce security. You’re leaving out another significant aspect of this, though-- thieves adapt and create a game of leapfrog with any type of security. As mentioned above, nothing is less secure than a cheap turn-key ignition. RFID keys leapfrogged thieves for a while, who then adapted and found ways around the systems, but I’d argue it’s not common enough to fear, or enough that I’d downgrade to an even less secure method. At the end of the day, you’re best served by layers of security and can only deter a confident thief. If/when your security fails, you have insurance. Between those two points, the experience should be more convenient to the operator, which based on market reception, it is. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-about-car-non-keys/757207/82 "2016-06-17T14:33:50Z")
> [@Krouget](#): > > You’re leaving out another significant aspect of this, though-- thieves adapt and create a game of leapfrog with any type of security. As mentioned above, nothing is less secure than a cheap turn-key ignition. RFID keys leapfrogged thieves for a while, who then adapted and found ways around the systems, but I’d argue it’s not common enough to fear, or enough that I’d downgrade to an even less secure method. > > At the end of the day, you’re best served by layers of security and can only deter a confident thief. If/when your security fails, you have insurance. Between those two points, the experience should be more convenient to the operator, which based on market reception, it is. Anything to do with security against car theft depends on real and/or perceived risk. I don’t have comprehensive stats for car theft in my town, but the NYT reported a 96% decline in car theft in NYC, right next door, from 1990 to 2013. Also my car is in a robotic garage (which has some real issues Luddites could sink their teeth into…but for theft means you have to defeat two systems). Theft risk wouldn’t factor in significantly to me, and anyway the post to which you referred said it was easy for thieves to defeat keyless entry for ‘some makes’, I doubt it is for my car. The factor most often mentioned in making cars technically harder to steal, besides enforcement or social factors affecting crime, is immoblizer/chip keys. However I don’t think the previous poster established that the keyless systems are actually more vulnerable practically. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-about-car-non-keys/757207/83 "2016-06-17T15:35:06Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Anything to do with security against car theft depends on real and/or perceived risk. I don’t have comprehensive stats for car theft in my town, but the NYT reported a 96% decline in car theft in NYC, right next door, from 1990 to 2013. Also my car is in a robotic garage (which has some real issues Luddites could sink their teeth into…but for theft means you have to defeat two systems). Theft risk wouldn’t factor in significantly to me, and anyway the post to which you referred said it was easy for thieves to defeat keyless entry for ‘some makes’, I doubt it is for my car. The factor most often mentioned in making cars technically harder to steal, besides enforcement or **social factors affecting crime** , is immoblizer/chip keys. However I don’t think the previous poster established that the keyless systems are actually more vulnerable practically. Good points, especially on social factors. Somewhat related, garage doors w/ remotes are relatively easy to bypass, but there isn’t some paranoia over their vulnerability. Or at least, I wouldn’t avoid buying a house I wanted, because of it.😛 ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-about-car-non-keys/757207/84 "2016-06-17T15:48:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Even then, if the key fob is actually dead as dead can get, holding it up to the start button will typically allow you to start the car. with Fords, there’s either a pocket inside the console bin, or in a tray on the console where you set the fob and an NFC coil reads the code. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-about-car-non-keys/757207/85 "2016-06-18T13:41:58Z")
Despite liking the keyless entry, i have had a similar “passenger got out, remaining driver no longer had key” story. Our car has a visible alert, but we did that once anyway. Fortunately, my husband just drove home after dropping me at the train station, and the other key was at home, so nothing bad happened. But if he’d tried to stop en route, and hadn’t noticed the large visible warning on the dash, he would have stranded himself. Definitely a failure mode, but probably less common/problematic than the old “lock the keys in the car” failure mode, which has been eliminated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-about-car-non-keys/757207.md?page=4)