# What are your thoughts on an Ayahuasca retreat? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 20, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344 "2023-05-20T21:01:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/21 "2023-05-21T17:13:50Z")
What is the effect if one just eats DMT orally without MAOIs? Same effect as smoking it, you get a 15-minute trip? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/22 "2023-05-21T17:15:50Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > That is the reason I wouldnt do that. Puking hurts, well, leading up to when you do. Not just hurts, but it takes surprisingly little to tear one’s esophagus too. I hurled recently and had a bit of Mallory-Weiss Syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/23 "2023-05-21T17:40:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > He alternated between murmuring quietly and incomprehensibly and uttering loud, heart-rending shrieks, howling dully and moaning and groaning.” This is the reason the retreat is probably located away from neighbors - who wants to hear some gringoes shrieking and howling, and have smells of humans soiling themselves wafting around, without getting paid for the displeasure. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2023, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/24 "2023-05-21T19:47:55Z")
From the linked article on ayahuasca: > [@](#): > > Ayahuasca journeys can range from one-night events to multi-day _dietas_ , which usually require a participant to refrain from any intense physical stimulants such as sex, alcohol, and rich foods for a period of time. The part about avoiding “rich food” and alcohol makes some sense, if you’re imbibing psychoactive plant compounds containing MAOIs. There’d be a risk of dietary tyramines causing a dangerous spike in blood pressure, possibly worse if you’re simultaneously having profound out-of-body experiences. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2023, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/25 "2023-05-21T22:26:14Z")
Recreational psychedelics aren’t really a good comparison to the deeper tribal medicine traditions such as ayahuasca or ibogaine. Just purely in terms of the drug, it creates a much deeper and transporting experience, and then the setting of being assisted and cared for in a dedicated environment with experienced practitioners really helps to deepen the experience and increase the sense of safety. With that being said, there’s little regulation on this kind of thing, and every practitioner has their own way. Personally I only have experience & interest in the deeper sessions, which looks like a 1-week retreat with an initial lightweight experience at the beginning, and an absolutely massive incapacitating dose toward the end. I couldn’t imagine that doing that more than once a year. But I know some of the bigger churches and group practitioners do more lightweight sessions where one could maybe tolerate 10 sessions in 4 weeks. That’s more of a socially oriented experience and not something I have a lot of interest in. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/26 "2023-05-21T22:27:32Z")
Yeah he said they have you die in advance, ad he anticipated puke and shit. I didn’t understand at first when he told me of the length - just seemed awfully excessive. He is seeing it as “therapy”, expecting to get some insights into his inner nature. I hope he gets something valuable out of it. Just got back from seeing him sing the title role in Pagliacci. That’s a bit of a 180 - from opera to tripping in the rain forest. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/27 "2023-05-21T22:28:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What is the effect if one just eats DMT orally without MAOIs? Same effect as smoking it, you get a 15-minute trip? If you don’t take MAOI, then the MAO in your gut destroys the monoamines (DMT) before you get much if any effect. The smoked DMT experience bears little resemblance to the Ayahuasca experience anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/28 "2023-05-22T03:44:32Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > What is the effect if one just eats DMT orally without MAOIs? Same effect as smoking it, you get a 15-minute trip? I have not tried eating it. As smoking anything gets it into your lungs and then into your blood rather fast, and eating and digesting is a much slower process, the amount you would need to eat would be rather large. There is an interesting “threshold” effect with DMT. Below the threshold, you are going to hallucinate, but typically geometric shapes - symmetrical mandala type or fractals. Above the threshold is a complete different reality. It is hard to explain. A full on out of body, out of this world thing. To use a cliché, it’s not just that you are seeing pink elephants, it is that you actually are a pink elephant in a pink savanna. The other interesting (at least to me) thing is that there are a number of “shared” experiences. Obviously it is impossible to quantify hallucinations but reports from users on Erowid (not linked - but easily searched) suggest there are a number of common experiences. The “green lady”, the “machine elves” ( @Machine_Elf ) , becoming a single point of energy and some others. This is all subjective, of course, but DMT is the only chemical that I know of that has had users reporting very similar alternative realities. ETA - the plant [Salvia Divinorum](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvinorin_A) has a similar effect but having only tried it twice I cannot vouch for it having “common” experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/29 "2023-05-22T04:15:44Z")
I see, thanks. I’d been considering DMT because it’s so short-lasting (and the shorter the trip, the less the chance of triggering bipolar - I have a bipolar sister) - but I’m wary of encountering entities and also am concerned it may be too powerful for a first-time tripper. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/30 "2023-05-22T04:23:48Z")
DMT is not for tourists. I would suggest psilocybin mushrooms if you want to try a psychedelic. Start with a tiny amount, and build up - like just a stem or a cap at a time. Don’t take a whole gram until you are ready. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/31 "2023-05-22T04:37:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > shorter the trip, the less the chance of triggering bipolar I have not researched this, having no affinity with bipolar disorder, but I strongly doubt that length of the experience has any correlation with “triggering” bipolar disorder. But again, if you choose to try psychedelics, start with one where you can control the dose. Rule out DMT, LSD, Ketamine, etc. Mushrooms allow you to be in control. Be careful. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/32 "2023-05-22T04:38:56Z")
I see, thanks. I have done ketamine before (albeit only the oral version, tablets prescribed to me by a doctor.) It would occasionally send me into a swirling weird consciousness where I wondered if I was really alive or not but that was all - usually had little effect. Hoping for something more with shrooms ---
**Author:** ![Dereknocue67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Dereknocue67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dereknocue67)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/33 "2023-05-22T07:22:27Z")
I agree. I prefer activities where vomiting is not involved. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/34 "2023-05-22T11:32:06Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Yeah he said they have you die in advance, ad Obviously “diet” and “and”. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/35 "2023-05-22T12:00:24Z")
I much preferred “… they have you die in advance”. It makes it all so much more mystical! 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/36 "2023-05-22T12:03:35Z")
Yeah, I read that and thought, “Wow, they’re _serious_ about it being ‘life-changing’.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/37 "2023-05-22T12:03:36Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I much preferred “… they have you die in advance”. It makes it all so much more mystical! 😄 For real. I was like, these shamans don’t fuck around. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/38 "2023-05-22T12:18:38Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Would you do such a thing? Why or why not? I wouldn’t, for a variety of reasons. One of them is connected to this article (trigger warning: it discusses cultural appropriation, a concept that I know makes a lot of people very sadfaced): > **[Why You Should Think Twice Before Booking an Ayahuasca Retreat](https://matadornetwork.com/read/ayahuasca-retreat-ethics/)** > > Ayahuasca retreats are gaining popularity, but commercialization can lead to a lot of problems for Indigenous communities. Whether you think cultural appropriation is a legitimate concern or not, I think the article does have some decent suggestions: > [@](#): > > Many of the street kids in Iquitos, Peru, the epicenter of ayahuasca tourism, tell me they want to be a “shaman” when they grow up because that’s where the money and Western women are. And can you blame them when a foreigner down the road is making tens of thousands of dollars per retreat that sells the kids’ own cultural traditions while they suffer from high levels of poverty because of centuries of colonial-capitalist exploitation? > > In fact, the Colombian supreme court classifies all five ethnicities that make up UMIYAC as being in danger of “physical and cultural extinction.” > > If you do go to a Western-owned, run, or organized ayahuasca retreat, make sure it is connected to, supportive of, and aligned with an Indigenous community or organization. [The Indigenous Reciprocity Initiative of the Chacruna Institute](https://chacruna-iri.org/south-and-central-america/) links ayahuasca and other plant medicine projects in the West with Indigenous organizations in need. Because Indigenous people have nurtured this medicine since time immemorial and are now on the frontline of our ecological crisis, make sure that any money you pay goes towards helping them, too. I also think there’s a certain level of white people nonsense involved here. There are local folks studying the uses of hallucinogens in the treatment of depression and other illnesses. My father, a retired physician, has become active in a group in his community that’s conducting some grant-funded research on the topic. But going to Peru and into the jungle suggests a Genuine Spiritual Experience with a Certified Shaman, a sort of religious tourism that in my opinion cheapens both the tourist and the religion. If he has close ties to the community and is invited by someone he knows to join the community more closely, that’s one thing; but if it’s the equivalent of going to the Vatican City and paying $20,000 to get to put on a bishop’s robe and chant in Latin for a month, I’m less convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/39 "2023-05-22T13:51:11Z")
I hear that the ultimate self-actualizing experience is climbing Mt. Everest while on a DMT trip. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344/40 "2023-05-22T17:12:39Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I see, thanks. I’d been considering DMT because it’s so short-lasting (and the shorter the trip, the less the chance of triggering bipolar - I have a bipolar sister) If you feel like you have any history of psychiatric illness, or risk of the same, it’s better to abstain entirely from mind-altering substances. Nobody really knows how those phenomena interact, except that drugs can trigger unseen or latent conditions. Nobody knows why it happens, and without sound scientific research, nobody can reliably say that any drug is safer than another w/r/t triggering latent conditions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-on-an-ayahuasca-retreat/984344.md?page=3)