# What are your thoughts regarding Carlos Castaneda? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571 "2005-10-03T13:56:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GrahamWellington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/54ee81/32.png) [@GrahamWellington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrahamWellington)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/21 "2005-10-04T02:55:02Z")
You only read one of his books, is that right? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/22 "2005-10-04T03:26:56Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > Castaneda’s books are classified as nonfiction. Yes, but so are such books as Charles Berlitz’s _The Bermuda Triangle_. Neither libraries nor booksellers are in any position to be judges of what they purvey. History may give a general consensus, but the default position for almost all books is how they were originally sold as by their publishers. Who also don’t bother to be judges of anything except whether a book will make money. There have been a very few cases of a non-fiction book being reclassified as fiction after an expose, but it takes an airtight case and pressure from organized bodies to bring this around. BTW, I won’t hate you for not going into specifics on that other stuff, but I will hold you in utter contempt. You have to understand you won’t - or shouldn’t - get any different response on this Board. Either material is made available for impartial scrutiny or it will forever be branded as bullshit. That’s just the way things work. And it’s true for books as well. Castaneda has never made his material available for impartial scrutiny, so it must be dismissed. There’s really no alternative. ---
**Author:** ![GrahamWellington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/54ee81/32.png) [@GrahamWellington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrahamWellington)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/23 "2005-10-04T04:08:33Z")
Okay, I’ll compromise on the “other stuff.” To gain some understnding, do this. Get a copy of the book “Michelle Remembers” (Pocket Books, 1980) and read it cover to cover. Ignore the comments of what people say at [Amazon.co](http://Amazon.co), as the truth is that there really is something to its claims (and I can prove it). That’s it; read it and get back to me soon! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/24 "2005-10-04T09:47:56Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > To gain some understnding, do this. Get a copy of the book “Michelle Remembers” (Pocket Books, 1980) and read it cover to cover. > > Ignore the comments of what people say at [Amazon.co](http://Amazon.co), as the truth is that there really is something to its claims (and I can prove it). > > That’s it; read it and get back to me soon! “Michelle Remembers”? Man, I wish we were in the Pit … just … go [here](http://skepdic.com/satanrit.html) for more on “satanic ritual abuse” - I can’t believe people are still peddling that load of stable-sweepings. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/25 "2005-10-04T13:46:43Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > You only read one of his books, is that right? That’s right. And your point is…? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/26 "2005-10-04T14:10:34Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > Okay, I’ll compromise on the “other stuff.” > > To gain some understnding, do this. Get a copy of the book “Michelle Remembers” (Pocket Books, 1980) and read it cover to cover. > > Ignore the comments of what people say at [Amazon.co](http://Amazon.co), as the truth is that there really is something to its claims (and I can prove it). > > That’s it; read it and get back to me soon! I’ve got a better idea. You prove it first and then I’ll bother reading the book. ---
**Author:** ![GrahamWellington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/54ee81/32.png) [@GrahamWellington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrahamWellington)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/27 "2005-10-04T15:31:26Z")
See what happens? I get spit on for being nice. Your loss. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/28 "2005-10-04T15:33:16Z")
Gee I used to smoke a lot of dope. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/29 "2005-10-04T16:21:26Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > See what happens? I get spit on for being nice. > > Your loss. So, there’s no proof forthcoming that Satanists like forcing kiddies to fellate dead giraffes after hot-air ballon rides? I’m not surprised in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/30 "2005-10-04T16:43:06Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > See what happens? I get spit on for being nice. > > Your loss. I started out at a loss. You gave me no information whatsoever, except to tell me I should ignore all the comments from people who were tearing apart an obvious hoax. These “Satanist cults” have already been subjected to impartial scrutiny and have failed every test. _Every_ test. I asked you personally to back up your claims. You have totally failed to do so. Acting hurt doesn’t change that in the slightest. You still have the opportunity to prove what you have claimed. I’m betting that you will never do so. ---
**Author:** ![lachesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@lachesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lachesis)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/31 "2005-10-04T16:51:30Z")
well, as a matter of fact, i _have_ read Michelle Remembers. it was pretty bizarre and, you should pardon the expression, unbelievable when i was wading through it. i’m a book-hoarder by nature, and that one went right to my “yard sale” pile. i can’t say i was overly shocked to learn later that it has been [debunked](http://www.religioustolerance.org/sra_intro.htm) as a hoax. (about 1/4 of the page down.) strike one. wanna take another swing? ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/32 "2005-10-04T17:17:34Z")
I agree with **Dorkness** here: It’s one thing to say you had a mystical experience, it’s another thing to drag American Indians into it. Many have denounced this stuff: [http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/articles/art00068.htm](http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/articles/art00068.htm) [http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/41/398.html](http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/41/398.html) It’s an extention of the noble savage myth that has hurt many communities, setting up unrealistic standards that if you fail to meet, you “aren’t a real Indian.” And if somehow this actually did happen, it seems really skeezy to me to publish about another people’s religion (which is often kept secret for religious reasons) and make money off of it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/33 "2005-10-04T17:47:07Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > To gain some understnding, do this. Get a copy of the book “Michelle Remembers” (Pocket Books, 1980) and read it cover to cover. I’m not sure why I should do this, **Graham**. You’ve already been presented with pretty strong evidence that Castaneda is a pernicious fraud; but rather than grapple with that evidence, you’ve danced around the issue, neither addressing the issue of cultural identity theft nor the issue of the evidence of his deceit. Given that, when you’re asking me to read another book, my immediate inclination is to suspect that it’s a hoax. Other people who HAVE read it are chiming in to declare that yes, it is a hoax. My time is limited. I’ve got a lot of reading to do for school, and beyond that, there are a lot of wonderful books out there both fiction and nonfiction. What can you say about this book to make me put it at the top of my reading list? Your personal recommendation is not, at this point, worth much with me. Once you deal with the ethical and factual issues surrounding Castaneda, you’ll have a little more currency. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/34 "2005-10-04T17:51:27Z")
On the bright side, he’s going to get a chance to read Dunsany, which can only improve anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/35 "2005-10-04T18:34:35Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > but I can tell you from personal experience that there really is some very serious stuff to some of it (though I am not at liberty to go into specifics). :rolleyes: > [@GrahamWellington](#): > > it has to be that way because certain people in this world would have my neck if I were to spill the beans about the strange and disturbing things they’re up to. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: You won’t get anywhere on a forum for fighting ignorance with persiflage like this. And let me suggest learning how to use the quote tags, or at least the old fashioned \>\> custom for indicating quoted material. ---
**Author:** ![GrahamWellington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/54ee81/32.png) [@GrahamWellington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrahamWellington)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/36 "2005-10-04T18:41:50Z")
Gezzzzzzzzz! I can’t believe you people!! What’s wrong with you people?? Can’t you read? Can’t you comprehend? I said I could prove that Michelle Remembers is a factual book PROVIDING that you get a copy and let me lead you to connect certain dots. But all it takes is a few lazy, ignorant yahoos to claim that it’s BS, and then all of the rest of the Bozos fall in line and parrot the same crap! Go ahead and keep living in your Green Acres world of talking pigs … as this is one Mr. Douglas that sees you for the mindless fools you are. Good day! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/37 "2005-10-04T19:26:03Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > What’s wrong with you people?? Can’t you read? Can’t you comprehend? Oh yes, it’s our fault :rolleyes: > [@GrahamWellington](#): > > I said I could prove that Michelle Remembers is a factual book PROVIDING that you get a copy and let me lead you to connect certain dots. Why can’t you post the proof anyway? Because you got nothing. Mods, please move this to a better forum, this is way beyond CS. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/38 "2005-10-04T19:29:24Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > Gezzzzzzzzz! I can’t believe you people!! > > What’s wrong with you people?? Can’t you read? Can’t you comprehend? > > I said I could prove that Michelle Remembers is a factual book PROVIDING that you get a copy and let me lead you to connect certain dots. But all it takes is a few lazy, ignorant yahoos to claim that it’s BS, and then all of the rest of the Bozos fall in line and parrot the same crap! > > Go ahead and keep living in your Green Acres world of talking pigs … as this is one Mr. Douglas that sees you for the mindless fools you are. > > Good day! Darn, and no one took me up on my bet. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/39 "2005-10-04T20:20:31Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > Gezzzzzzzzz! I can’t believe you people!! > > What’s wrong with you people?? Can’t you read? Can’t you comprehend? > > I said I could prove that Michelle Remembers is a factual book PROVIDING that you get a copy and let me lead you to connect certain dots. I can prove that Real Extra-Terrestrials Don’t Phone Home is a factual book, if _you_ would just get a copy. Though, it’s less a case of connecting dots and more a matter of pie charts. > [@](#): > > But all it takes is a few lazy, ignorant yahoos to claim that it’s BS, and then all of the rest of the Bozos fall in line and parrot the same crap! Whoa! There’s no reason to drag the good name of Bozo The Clown into this! > [@](#): > > Go ahead and keep living in your Green Acres world of talking pigs … as this is one Mr. Douglas that sees you for the mindless fools you are. This isn’t Green Acres man. It’s Eerie Indiana! If you don’t believe me, just visit the lodge of The Loyal Order Of Corn! ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571/40 "2005-10-04T20:25:10Z")
Just in case Graham is still around, when you make a claim it is up to you to prove it. You said Michelle Remembers is a book of facts. It’s your job to prove that claim. The burden is not on us to read the book. It is on you to prove that it isn’t BS. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-thoughts-regarding-carlos-castaneda/324571.md?page=3)