# What arguments would you use to convince someone that God really does exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101 "2024-04-10T15:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/21 "2024-04-10T17:49:44Z")
Funny, I use the same sentence when someone tells me they have faith is some sort of supernatural actor(s). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/22 "2024-04-10T17:51:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’ve thought about this for a long time and my conclusion is that nothing short of something supernatural or miraculous will do. That’s pretty much my view as well. Anything that can be explained as a natural phenomena should be assumed to be a natural phenomena. Proof of God requires evidence of something that can’t be explained by our knowledge of nature. And it would have to be direct evidence. No second hand accounts of miracles. Finally, for a miracle to be attributed to God, you’d have to demonstrate that it isn’t caused by some other deity or supernatural force. Maybe set up a series of experiments, pray to different supernatural entities to produce a miraculous result, and see which experiments have a miracle. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/23 "2024-04-10T17:53:25Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > My standard response when someone says they are an athiest or otherwise “don’t believe in God” is: > > _A person saying they don’t believe in God is like a fish saying it doesn’t believe in water._ Fish have tangible evidence that water exists. There is no equivalent evidence that God exists. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/24 "2024-04-10T18:00:38Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I agree with you, but I think you should be careful here, as questions like this are something of a “gotcha” intended to show that atheists are (equally) biased A gotcha is not an argument: however smug the got(t)cha’er feels I consider him disqualified by got(t)cha’ing. Just shows he did not mean the question in earnest. He argued in bad faith. Just let him take his points home and feel victorious, he is not worth arguing with. > [@Velocity](#): > > At a certain point, a miracle would not be able to be hand-waved away A [miracle](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/miracle) is not an [argument](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/argument) either, just look up what those words mean. And I think it is no coincidence that miracles never happen in circumstances that are verifiable. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/25 "2024-04-10T18:13:57Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > _A person saying they don’t believe in God is like a fish saying it doesn’t believe in water._ > > IOW believe, don’t believe, argue, don’t argue, have “faith,” don’t have faith-- it’s all the same and your take on the matter is 100% irrelevant because **it doesn’t change reality.** Swimming in god is a lovely image. I like that. Unfortunately, most people don’t mean that when they talk about “believing in God”. They include: now you have to do what I tell you to do and believe whatever else I (or my book) tell you to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/26 "2024-04-10T18:17:40Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > IOW believe, don’t believe, argue, don’t argue, have “faith,” don’t have faith-- it’s all the same and your take on the matter is 100% irrelevant because **it doesn’t change reality.** I’m sorry if I am incapable of setting my bar low enough to accept your view of “reality”. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/27 "2024-04-10T18:24:57Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > A gotcha is not an argument: however smug the got(t)cha’er feels I consider him disqualified by got(t)cha’ing. Just shows he did not mean the question in earnest. He argued in bad faith. Not necessarily. Sometimes people are repeating an argument that seemed superficially to make sense to them. Especially when a person is motivated to hear “good arguments against atheism” or whatever. This is why I didn’t accuse the op of trying a gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/28 "2024-04-10T18:26:11Z")
Let’s start with a face-to-face conversation about why my daughter had a horrible illness from conception and died due to it. And no fair him giving the bullshit answer he gave Job of, “You wouldn’t understand.” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/29 "2024-04-10T18:32:15Z")
Apology unnecessary. If you don’t get it, you don’t get it. No prob. Reality keeps right on rolling along. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/30 "2024-04-10T18:34:02Z")
First you’ll have to define “God”, we can go on from there depending on your definition. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/31 "2024-04-10T18:35:34Z")
Everyone on Earth believes in gravity. If God existed, He could easily prove it. (Since there’s no evidence of any God, there’s no need to assume one exists.) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/32 "2024-04-10T18:37:06Z")
I would be convinced if the OP returned to the thread and gave us his thoughts and thanked all the kind posters for their thoughtful responses. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/33 "2024-04-10T18:38:04Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Everyone on Earth believes in gravity. You have never met a flearther or watched one of their video I assume. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/34 "2024-04-10T18:43:43Z")
Do you have any specific Biblical prophesies in mind, @phillipdalton? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/35 "2024-04-10T18:53:08Z")
For me to “get it”, I ask that you first “give it”. What is your best evidence for the existence of the god you believe in? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/36 "2024-04-10T18:57:03Z")
You know, fish swim in water, ergo God. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/37 "2024-04-10T18:59:58Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Everyone on Earth believes in gravity. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > You have never met a flearther or watched one of their video I assume. No indeed (I have better things to do with my time 😉) - but even they agree that objects fall… ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/38 "2024-04-10T19:06:42Z")
If a god exists, then why does she need me to convince someone of her existence? An all-powerful, all-knowing being shouldn’t have to rely on the likes of me to convince others. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/39 "2024-04-10T19:10:15Z")
Sounds like my old argument. What would it take for an all-knowing deity to convince me it exists? I don’t know, but an all-knowing deity _would_. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/40 "2024-04-10T19:20:45Z")
> [@glee](#): > > but even they agree that objects fall… No they don’t. Objects assume their natural position due to relative density. And helium balloons and flying birds disprove gravity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101.md?page=3)