# What arguments would you use to convince someone that God really does exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101 "2024-04-10T15:25:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/521 "2024-05-11T21:04:21Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Do you have any good reasons to believe in god? If you found out tomorrow that there’s undeniably, definitely, no god, would you except it? Sorry, I didn’t notice them the first time. I think the fact that we’re here at all is a reason to wonder about a higher power, and see it as evidence of God. I can’t prove that God exists though. I’m aware of that. And I don’t think there’s “proof” that God doesn’t exist. If it could be proved, and I saw the “proof”, I guess I’d have to accept it. But I don’t think it can be proved. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/522 "2024-05-11T21:09:29Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > First, that’s a very different set of behaviors than the first ones you listed, and if you are including these under “among other things” then I question this as a line of argument. But I see other posters have taken you up on that, So let’s talk about being saved, and the need for a savior. If you don’t believe in original sin, then not everyone needs a savior, right? Non-evil people, even people who are cowardly and selfish about helping others, would not need a savior. So if you posit a savior who was sent to us by a deity to die for our sins, it sounds like that savior is suffering to help a minority of people to be saved, because the majority of people don’t need it. Of course, trying to use reasoned arguments on these issues will always lead to cul-de-sacs like this one, because the issues don’t arise from a reasonable premise. Here I’m just showing you where such thinking leads, which I suspect is not where you want to go. Well, I think we’re all sinners. We all do things we shouldn’t be doing. Some of us do “worser” things than others. Not everyone is Joseph Stalin, the Breaker of Nations. And I see good in people, too. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t have gotten married. 🙂 It’s possible to be a sinner, and to also have some good within you. It’s possible to see another as a fellow sinner, but see enough good in them to want to be around them and help them (or get drunk with them). We’re all a little complicated in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/523 "2024-05-11T21:12:08Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > And I don’t think there’s “proof” that God doesn’t exist. If it could be proved, and I saw the “proof”, I guess I’d have to accept it. But I don’t think it can be proved. I agree, I don’t make the claim there are no gods, just don’t believe in any. To be honest, I’d be more incline to dismiss specific gods, (no offence, but the likelihood of yours existing, in my opinion, is relatively low, if not any). The notion of a god I remain “agnostic” on. I don’t know if this is something you already know or not, but the terms can be confusing. I’m an agnostic atheist, (a lot of people who just claim to be atheist are). Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive. I just hear a lot of people who think you can only be one or the other. Also, I’m glad you’re intellectually honest enough to consider what you’d do if you found out you were wrong. I know it’s unlikely a god will ever be proven OR disproven (in my lifetime). So… I’m sticking to what I know to be real. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2024, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/524 "2024-05-11T23:32:38Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I’m an agnostic atheist, (a lot of people who just claim to be atheist are). Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive. I hadn’t heard of that term with the two words brought together. Thanks for letting me know. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/525 "2024-05-12T00:59:14Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > And I don’t think there’s “proof” that God doesn’t exist. If it could be proved, and I saw the “proof”, I guess I’d have to accept it. But I don’t think it can be proved. You don’t need proof against something when there is no evidence _for_ something. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/526 "2024-05-12T01:03:10Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > I think the fact that we’re here at all is a reason to wonder about a higher power, and see it as evidence of God. I can’t prove that God exists though. I’m aware of that. You know that other “gods” are/were worshipped, right? Is there a reason to make the god you worship the only choice available…besides the fact that it is the one you are most familiar with? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/527 "2024-05-12T01:11:56Z")
Someday folks will understand that God is a god and that the only god named _God_ (at least in English) is the Abrahamic god. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/528 "2024-05-12T01:52:19Z")
It’s like saying "If that paint is a color, it means that it is red. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/529 "2024-05-12T02:48:52Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > But there were millions of people who were indifferent I don’t know that this is fair to those people, and neither do you. How many of them were just afraid, and denied to themselves what was really happening or even refused to let themselves think about it, because they could not handle the emotional conflict between doing nothing and knowing how people were suffering and dying. I don’t know what I would do, if my own loved one would have also been killed if I tried to help and was caught. Yes, there were those who helped, at great risk to themselves, and those people have my admiration. I’ve never been called on to make that kind of choice, so I don’t condemn those who sat on the sidelines. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/530 "2024-05-12T03:35:53Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > **Christian** : Jesus died for your sins! Let’s not forget that Jesus didn’t really die for anyone’s sins, he gave up part of a holiday weekend for them. And while his time on the cross was torture, it wasn’t half as his bad as his followers would do for those not willing to toe the church line. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/531 "2024-05-12T04:35:36Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Are they generally good? They are an offshoot of Israelites that do not consider themselves Jewish. There is a common history up to the time of the High Priest Eli, who they say is an usurper. There are some minor variations in the Pentateuch. That is the root of the tension between the two groups. Samaritans, as a people, are like any other group of humans. Most are generally good, depending on specific definitions. Some are not so good. “_The_ Good Samaritan” is somewhat misleading as we currently take it to imply that most Samaritans are not good. But the parable isn’t so much that a normally bad person did good, it is that first a Jewish priest and then a Levite passed by without helping - two people who should best understand the Bible. But the one who helped was someone not even in the community. A passerby, someone not a Jew but better exemplifying proper behavior. The moral is about defining the term “neighbor” to mean all people, not just people you know. Since it is a parable, there likely isn’t any real Samaritan or Jewish priest or Levite. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/532 "2024-05-12T04:50:43Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > he gave up part of a holiday weekend for them That’s the part that really stumps me. I commit just one sin and I’m going pay for that sin in Hell for eternity. Jesus pays for every sin and He’s only in Hell for an afternoon. I can only conclude that either eternity is a lot shorter that we currently understand or Jesus pays the wholesale price for sins. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/533 "2024-05-12T16:04:39Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > **Christian** : Jesus died for your sins! > **Non-Christian** : Cool! So I get to go to Heaven too! > **Christian** : No, you only go to Heaven if you repent and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. > **Non-Christian** : In other words, Jesus did not die for my sins. > **Christian** : I see you’re demon possessed and have the Spirit of Anti-Christ! Burn in Hell sinner! The thing that gets me is that people have no control over what they _believe._ So those of us who just can’t believe, because of the way God made us, are going to be tortured for all eternity. (Well, not according to Jesus. Jesus didn’t believe in anything like hell. He just believed sinners were going to die and everyone else would be bodily resurrected.) To be punished for something completely out of your control sounds sadistic to me. I won’t even hit my kid and this God wants to do violent agonizing damage to His children for all eternity, simply for not being perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/534 "2024-05-12T16:25:24Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I commit just one sin and I’m going pay for that sin in Hell for eternity. Jesus pays for every sin and He’s only in Hell for an afternoon. Sounds like a 2 tiered justice system. Jesus is Donald Trump? ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/535 "2024-05-12T17:03:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You know that other “gods” are/were worshipped, right? Is there a reason to make the god you worship the only choice available…besides the fact that it is the one you are most familiar with? He has the coolest son (the guy turned water into wine, and you don’t worship him???)… ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/536 "2024-05-12T17:05:02Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > He has the coolest son (the guy turned water into wine, and you don’t worship him???)… Send him over to my next party and let him pull off that trick once more, and we can talk. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/537 "2024-05-12T17:05:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You don’t need proof against something when there is no evidence _for_ something. I think there is evidence _for_ God’s existence. It’s not enough to convince many people though. And it’s not proof. But it is evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/538 "2024-05-12T18:26:16Z")
There are about 3,000 religions on planet Earth. There is no observed society in history that didn’t have some form of religion. And how many different philosophies? Humans are in the business of making meaning from existence in any way they can. _That’s_ what’s beautiful. I think I’m here to directly experience being alive in all its fullness. Being alive is fucking magical. I just never realized it before. Not only is this life all we get, this _moment_ is all we get. And everything changes all the time. We’re just this big field of constantly shifting, moving, stuff. It’s extraordinary. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/539 "2024-05-12T18:32:55Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It’s extraordinary. Extraordinary and Beautiful, I get. Being altogether “Good” is another thing. There’s a lot of suffering that’s difficult to imagine when you’re coming from a privileged place. I’m not saying you specifically, but… Also, I should add that you didn’t say “good”.I’m just being ‘that guy’. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101/540 "2024-05-12T18:34:33Z")
And that evidence for the existence of the god you worship is…? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-arguments-would-you-use-to-convince-someone-that-god-really-does-exist/1000101.md?page=28)