# What Ark? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475 "2006-11-15T01:53:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![deputyd2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@deputyd2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deputyd2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/1 "2006-11-15T01:53:16Z")
I can’t find the place I was reading about where the Ark of the Covenant is. So, I thought I’d start a new thread. Please come on in and we’ll discuss this subject from a religious standpoint, provided we all sign off when we’re ready, holding no animosities, grudges, or malice toward others for their thoughts. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/2 "2006-11-15T01:57:26Z")
Isn’t it stored away inside a shipping crate in some vast military warehouse??? Have Rumy track it down, he’ll have some spare time on his hands now. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/3 "2006-11-15T01:57:28Z")
What? Can you rephrase the question? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/4 "2006-11-15T02:18:36Z")
What exactly are you asking? You want to know where the Ark is? You want to know WHAT it is? What do you mean by “a religious standpoint?” ---
**Author:** ![deputyd2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@deputyd2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deputyd2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/5 "2006-11-15T02:20:08Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] What? Can you rephrase the question? [/QUOTE] My point to the question is…there is no ark, never was, and never will be. The things you hear about in the bible are rather idiotic, but, they are there to make you believe them when you hear your pastor/rabbi/priest/ etc. tell you in his way so that you live in a world of fear that you’re going to hell(another farce), heaven, or pugatory. If you care to, I can tell you much more than they tell you…just to hold you in that “heavenly hell” or place of punishment for your original sin which , of course is another lie. More later, Apos ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/6 "2006-11-15T02:34:08Z")
[QUOTE=deputyd2] My point to the question is…there is no ark, never was, and never will be. The things you hear about in the bible are rather idiotic, but, they are there to make you believe them when you hear your pastor/rabbi/priest/ etc. tell you in his way so that you live in a world of fear that you’re going to hell(another farce), heaven, or pugatory. If you care to, I can tell you much more than they tell you…just to hold you in that “heavenly hell” or place of punishment for your original sin which , of course is another lie. More later, Apos [/QUOTE] Hi, **deputyd2**. Welcome to the SDMB. I think you’re going to find that we already know everything you’re going to tell us. This is not a particularly religious message board. If anything it leans decidedly towards skeptical/agnostic/atheist viewpoints. Did you just get done reading _The Bible Unearthed_ or something. For the record, I agree there was probably never an Ark, at least not anything that went back to Moses and the Exodus because there was no Moses and no Exodus. There may well have been a ceremonial Ark in the first Temple, though. If so, it probably got melted by the Babylonians. ---
**Author:** ![deputyd2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@deputyd2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deputyd2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/7 "2006-11-15T02:44:46Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] What exactly are you asking? You want to know where the Ark is? You want to know WHAT it is? What do you mean by “a religious standpoint?” [/QUOTE] Diogenes… I know “what the ark is SUPPOSED to be”…I don’t know where “it” is, mainly because there is no ark, and never was, nor ever will be. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/8 "2006-11-15T02:49:25Z")
If you meant to prefix your question with “according to myth” (which I’m sure you did 🙂 )… Was “[The Ark is in Ethiopia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Our_Lady_Mary_of_Zion)” the story you were after ? Cool myth, would make a good film/book IMO, but I guess that storyline has been done 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![deputyd2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@deputyd2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deputyd2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/9 "2006-11-15T03:14:26Z")
[QUOTE=deputyd2] Diogenes… I know “what the ark is SUPPOSED to be”…I don’t know where “it” is, mainly because there is no ark, and never was, nor ever will be. [/QUOTE] Thanks, Diogenes, for the heads up…I am an atheist now for about seven years, and have studied very hard about atheism…I don’t have all the answers. Prior to my becoming an atheist I had been a baptist, presbyterian, church of chr **t, and pentacostal’ and thought I was the best chr** tian that ever was. I spoke in tongues(HA), praised g\*d every waking moment. But NO prayer was ever answered. I’ve through gall bladder surgery, two aortic abdominal anuerisms(almost died on the table the second one).Then five years trying to get rid of prostate cancer. My wife was catholic 'til 1973, when she saw the “light”, and started studying atheism. Later, Apos. Going to bed before my eyes slam shut ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/10 "2006-11-15T03:18:20Z")
[QUOTE=deputyd2] Please come on in and we’ll discuss this subject from a religious standpoint, provided we all sign off when we’re ready, holding no animosities, grudges, or malice toward others for their thoughts. [/QUOTE] You do realize, don’t you, that the phrase “from a religious standpoint” is flatly incompatible with the remainder of that sentence? ---
**Author:** ![deputyd2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@deputyd2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deputyd2)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/11 "2006-11-15T03:20:01Z")
[QUOTE=deputyd2] Diogenes… I know “what the ark is SUPPOSED to be”…I don’t know where “it” is, mainly because there is no ark, and never was, nor ever will be. [/QUOTE] Thanks, Diogenes, for the heads up…I am an atheist now for about seven years, and have studied very hard about atheism…I don’t have all the answers. Prior to my becoming an atheist I had been a baptist, presbyterian, church of chr **t, and pentacostal’ and thought I was the best chr** tian that ever was. I spoke in tongues(HA), praised g_d every waking moment. But NO prayer was ever answered. I’ve through gall bladder surgery, two aortic abdominal anuerisms(almost died on the table the second one).Then the next five years trying to get rid of prostate cancer. Do you think that phony g_d gave me any relief ? Not in this lifetime where there are NO g\*ds, never were. My wife was catholic 'til 1973, when she saw the “light”, and started studying atheism. Later, Apos. Going to bed before my eyes slam shut ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/12 "2006-11-15T03:54:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] For the record, I agree there was probably never an Ark, at least not anything that went back to Moses and the Exodus because there was no Moses and no Exodus. There may well have been a ceremonial Ark in the first Temple, though. If so, it probably got melted by the Babylonians. [/QUOTE] I think you and I are in general agreement on this, but you are saying two different things here. You SEEM to be saying that there was no Ark…except for the one they had at the First Temple. I.e. there was an Ark, but there was no magical Ark that went back to Moses et al. Certainly I think there is enough circumstantial evidence to say that there WAS an Ark, that it had some holy relics in it, and that it was carted off by the Babylonians and probably turned into nipple rings or something for the Kings women…the wooden parts used for kindling. Is this really in dispute? Certainly the Minimalists (which I think you are one DtC) would say that EVERYTHING in the bible is in dispute, as there is not a lot of hard evidence on the ground of stuff like the Ark…only real evidence is in the Bible (and I think in the Ark’s case maybe in some of the Jewish writings during the First Temple period?). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/13 "2006-11-15T04:10:21Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] I think you and I are in general agreement on this, but you are saying two different things here. You SEEM to be saying that there was no Ark…except for the one they had at the First Temple. I.e. there was an Ark, but there was no magical Ark that went back to Moses et al. Certainly I think there is enough circumstantial evidence to say that there WAS an Ark, that it had some holy relics in it, and that it was carted off by the Babylonians and probably turned into nipple rings or something for the Kings women…the wooden parts used for kindling. Is this really in dispute? Certainly the Minimalists (which I think you are one DtC) would say that EVERYTHING in the bible is in dispute, as there is not a lot of hard evidence on the ground of stuff like the Ark…only real evidence is in the Bible (and I think in the Ark’s case maybe in some of the Jewish writings during the First Temple period?). [/QUOTE] Yeah, I guess I’m saying it depends on the criteria being used for what constitutes THE Ark. I see no reason there couldn’t have been a real reliquary in the Temple but that it wouldn’t have had the mythical history to it attributed in Exodus. That story would have come later. That is, I believe that there may have been a real “lost Ark” but that the history assigned to it probably arose during or shortly after the Babylonian captivity. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/14 "2006-11-15T04:33:15Z")
Can I vote for the ‘B’ Ark? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/15 "2006-11-15T04:33:43Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] That is, I believe that there may have been a real “lost Ark” but that the history assigned to it probably arose during or shortly after the Babylonian captivity. [/QUOTE] I can think of no pre-_Raiders_ Jewish or Christian mythology on the Ark dating from **after** the Captivity. Certainly it is not mentioned in any post-Exilic Scripture. (The Torah and the books of Joshua and Samuel almost certainly date from **before** the Captivity, though probably not very **long** before.) Do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/16 "2006-11-15T04:39:19Z")
It’s in my garage, behind the disused car seat and on top of a rather fugly picture of three dogs playing poker. In the summer I use it as a cooler. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/17 "2006-11-15T05:02:30Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I can think of no pre-_Raiders_ Jewish or Christian mythology on the Ark dating from **after** the Captivity. Certainly it is not mentioned in any post-Exilic Scripture. (The Torah and the books of Joshua and Samuel almost certainly date from **before** the Captivity, though probably not very **long** before.) Do you have a cite? [/QUOTE] The dating of the Torah and the Deuteronomic histories are extremely uncertain and hotly debated. Certainly the consensus is that some form of the Torah existed before the Captivity but the development of the Torah is so layered and multiply redacted (I’m sure you’re familiar with the documentary Hypothesis) and took place over such a length of time. The Minimalist theory is that the entire Torah is post-exilic but Finkelstein and Silberman (my go-to source of the moment) claim that it’s mostly 7th Century but underwent a final redaction after the exile. My opinion that the Ark was given a mythic history after the exile follows Minimalist thinking, but it’s only one hypothesis and I present it only as my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/18 "2006-11-15T05:10:43Z")
Of course, we all know [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Our_Lady_Mary_of_Zion) is where the Ark is, only they’re not allowed to show it to anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/19 "2006-11-15T08:29:50Z")
[QUOTE=deputyd2] … chr **t … chr** tian … g_d … g_ds … [/QUOTE] I’m curious to know the reason for this form of writing - I’ve seen religious people write the name of their supreme deity as ‘G-d’ (IIRC, as a tradition of reserving the properly-written name for documents that would be treated with care and respect), but you’re identifying yourself as an atheist. What’s the story? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475/20 "2006-11-15T09:17:10Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I’m curious to know the reason for this form of writing - I’ve seen religious people write the name of their supreme deity as ‘G-d’ (IIRC, as a tradition of reserving the properly-written name for documents that would be treated with care and respect), but you’re identifying yourself as an atheist. What’s the story? [/QUOTE] In cases where athiests do this, and particularly since he/she’s using asterisks, I think deputyd2 is probably just suggesting that such words are equivalent to swearing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ark/380475.md?page=2)