# What Artist made famous after death would be most surprising to his/her contemporaries? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 1, 2017, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236 "2017-09-01T11:35:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/21 "2017-09-02T12:48:49Z")
Emily Dickinson. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/22 "2017-09-02T15:49:53Z")
H.P. Lovecraft, clearly. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/23 "2017-09-02T18:05:26Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > The early reception for _Moby Dick_ wasn’t as bad as is often implied: > > [Moby-Dick - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-Dick) > > Philip K. Dick certainly wasn’t unknown at the time of his death. He was moderately popular. He’d already won a Hugo for best novel. A major movie made from another novel was about to come out. And, for what it’s worth, I remember how excited I was in 1975 to discover that a fellow grad student of mine was an ex-stepdaughter of Dick. His popularity has grown since his death, but he certainly wasn’t obscure during his life. Blade Runner came out after his death, but it was being made while he was still alive. And I have a whole shelf of his novels in '50s, '60s and '70s pb editions. That he’d have a Library of America volume however would be considered weird - but I think that is more due to the increased respectability of science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/24 "2017-09-02T18:24:56Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Mark Rothko hopefully would be surprised his paintings of colored squares are worth $50 mil. Most artists from any era would be astonished to learn of modern prices for their works. But Rothko was widely recognized as an important artist before his death in 1970 and had significant commissions from prominent companies and supporters. His contemporaries would not have been the least surprised that his works are highly valued today. (Of course, neither Rothko nor his contemporaries would have considered his works to be mere “colored squares” either.) ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/25 "2017-09-02T19:07:55Z")
Rothko did rectangles along with squares! BTW I know a square is also a rectangle. I don’t think any painting is worth $50 mil even ones I really like. But as the saying goes, a sucker is born every minute. (and yes I know it was not Barnum who said it) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/26 "2017-09-02T19:19:48Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Rothko did rectangles along with squares! BTW I know a square is also a rectangle. > > I don’t think any painting is worth $50 mil even ones I really like. But as the saying goes, a sucker is born every minute. (and yes I know it was not Barnum who said it) The fact that Rothko is highly regarded as an artist by knowledgeable critics and collectors may be surprising to you, but as I said it would not be so to his contemporaries. Personally, I don’t care all that much for Rothko (I prefer Pollock) but in no way does he qualify for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/27 "2017-09-02T20:56:49Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > \*\*Johann Sebastian Bach \*\*springs immediately to mind - he was known as a talented organist in his day but his works were out of fashion long before he died and his sons’ reputations as composers (well, Johann Christian and CPE - we’ll ignore WF for now) far outshadowed his for nearly a century (von Swieten notwithstanding). Exactly what I was going to post, until I read the first reply. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/28 "2017-09-02T21:13:25Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yeah, that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Captain America would be worth billions of dollars in 2017 would be pretty surprising back in the 1940s. I suspect not, except to the degree anyone from the '40s would be surprised by the size of the economy in general. In the '40s, Superman had a comic book circulation in the millions, and one of the most successful programs on the radio. He was already making inroads into movies through the Fleischer animated shorts and Columbia serials, and his hit TV show was just around the corner, in 1952. By the end of the '40s, Superman was a proven multi-media cultural icon. What would be surprising to someone from the '40s is the fact that Superman’s best selling comic book - still the industry leader - tops out at around 200,000 copies sold per month. They used to cancel books for those kinds of numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/29 "2017-09-02T22:02:54Z")
Jane Austen was a fairly successful novelist in her own lifetime, but not massively popular. About a dozen reviews of her books were published during her life, and while they were generally favorable only one reviewer (Sir Walter Scott, writing anonymously) seemed to recognize that they were anything special. Novels in general were still not very highly regarded in Austen’s time, so it probably would have been surprising to many of her contemporaries that ANY novelist of the era would have an enduring reputation as a great and beloved writer. Even if told that a particular lady novelist of their time would still be popular in 200 years, I think most people would have guessed someone like Fanny Burney or Ann Radcliffe – both of whom influenced Austen but are not very well known today except to scholars of English literature. Only a few years after Austen died another anonymous reviewer (possible Richard Whately) did compare her to Shakespeare, but her books soon went out of print for about a decade. However, after being republished in the 1830s they have never fallen out of print again, and by the late 19th century Austen was gaining a reputation as an important writer. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/30 "2017-09-02T23:24:05Z")
While Robert Johnson was far from unknown when he was alive, I bet he’d be surprised about what a central place he occupies in the blues, and about how many times his songs have been covered. Besides Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard hardly broke out when alive - he’d be surprised at how much Conan there is, and about the many adaptations. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/31 "2017-09-03T03:13:49Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > **Philip K. Dick** might be a better example - he was on the fringe of writing and considered troubled in his day, but now his psycho/dystopian themes are ever-present. If you told the most respected writers of the day that PKD would loom large in the future, I suspect they’d shake their heads. > [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Philip K. Dick certainly wasn’t unknown at the time of his death. He was moderately popular. He’d already won a Hugo for best novel. A major movie made from another novel was about to come out. And, for what it’s worth, I remember how excited I was in 1975 to discover that a fellow grad student of mine was an ex-stepdaughter of Dick. His popularity has grown since his death, but he certainly wasn’t obscure during his life. From what I recall, Dick had a strong critical reputation in his lifetime. People admired his work and saw he had genuine talent. I think what would have surprised his contemporaries was how much commercial success his work has achieved since his death. When he died in 1982, I doubt anyone would have guessed his estate would be worth millions a generation later. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/32 "2017-09-03T10:39:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > From what I recall, Dick had a strong critical reputation in his lifetime. People admired his work and saw he had genuine talent. > > I think what would have surprised his contemporaries was how much commercial success his work has achieved since his death. When he died in 1982, I doubt anyone would have guessed his estate would be worth millions a generation later. Yeah, I think that is what I meant. The surprise would be in the centrally-commercial success of his work. Same with the comics/superhero folk. Bach feels like the one closest to the art version of what I am trying to describe. His work was fine and then forgotten and then has grown to be seen as the apex of harmonic exploration in the Western Canon. Interesting stuff, as hoped. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/33 "2017-09-03T14:22:30Z")
Franz Kafka? ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/34 "2017-09-03T22:45:06Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > ETA: regarding Dickinson, yes, of course she wasn’t famous until after her death, but were her poems challenging to her contemporaries? If she had chosen / been able to publish while alive, would her word have been understood and appreciated? Fewer than ten of Dickinson’s 1800+ poems were published during her lifetime, all edited to “regularize” her punctuation and make them more conventional; she used dashes rather than periods and commas. When more poems were published four years after her death, they were still edited. As for authors, William Blake had a small readership during his lifetime; his admirers during his later years, who called themselves “The Ancients”, were more interested in his artwork and philosophy rather than his poetry. I’m sure that readers of his time, especially admirers of the more conventionally popular Wordsworth, would have been astounded to see Blake acclaimed as the greatest poet of his time. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/35 "2017-09-03T23:19:53Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Franz Kafka? You scoundrel! I was getting to the end OK, but then one from the bottom here you are. But really, just me and you so far? He was one of those people like from another time foretelling things. He is a prime example of this OP. Nietzsche too. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/36 "2017-09-03T23:58:40Z")
I’m not sure it’s art, but surely L Ron Hubbard qualifies somehow. “You mean, they’re \*\*\*still \*\*\*buying this sh!t?” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/37 "2017-09-04T00:38:55Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > **Philip K. Dick** might be a better example… IIRC, Ellison likes him. At least as much as he likes anyone. > [@Colibri](#): > > The fact that Rothko is highly regarded as an artist by knowledgeable critics and collectors may be surprising to you, but as I said it would not be so to his contemporaries. Personally, I don’t care all that much for Rothko (I prefer Pollock) but in no way does he qualify for this thread. Wife was an English class short of an Art History degree. When she took that class for another degree she said about also putting it toward her BA, “Fuck that.” An Art major to the last. Her specialty was 15th century altar pieces (can you see why it’s so hard to replace her?) and with them one must become obsessive about brush strokes. Great brush strokes. Rothko’s are great. As for Pollock, she had me looking at the precise placement of the blotches and told me how he would go back and revise them by hand. Which is why they’re perfect and not monkey flinging. ---
**Author:** ![Annoying\_Buzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Annoying\_Buzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoying_Buzz)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/38 "2017-09-04T01:55:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > From what I recall, Dick had a strong critical reputation in his lifetime. People admired his work and saw he had genuine talent. > > I think what would have surprised his contemporaries was how much commercial success his work has achieved since his death. When he died in 1982, I doubt anyone would have guessed his estate would be worth millions a generation later. When Stanislaw Lem has his falling out with the SF Writers of America, Dick was the one American writer he singled out as praiseworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/39 "2017-09-04T01:58:14Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > I’m not sure it’s art, but surely L Ron Hubbard qualifies somehow. > > “You mean, they’re \*\*\*still \*\*\*buying this sh!t?” [this Guardian article](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/aug/18/neoliberalism-the-idea-that-changed-the-world) argues that Friedrich Hayek was considered somewhat of a second rate intellectual at the time but whose ideas now form the core of neoliberal ideology largely thanks to the efforts of Thatcher and Reagan. Similarly, while Ayn Rand had a moderate influence while she was alive, I don’t think many people would have predicted her lasting legacy as a cornerstone republican intellectual touchstone. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236/40 "2017-09-04T03:19:11Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Franz Kafka? Good choice. Very few of his works were published during his life (and most would never have been published if his agent Max Brod hadn’t defied his wishes to destroy them). His reputation is almost entirely posthumous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-artist-made-famous-after-death-would-be-most-surprising-to-his-her-contemporaries/795236.md?page=3)