# What aspect of bad writing bothers you the most? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 16, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727 "2009-11-16T02:38:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/61 "2009-11-18T08:57:52Z")
I get unreasonably annoyed with the word “murmer”. I roll my eyes when characters “murmer” something. I don’t even know if I’ve ever murmered. Just the sound of the word makes my upper lip begin to curl. Not that I would call it bad writing, but bad mechanics: the misuse or, more often, absence of semicolons in books not only by bad authors, but respected ones, is baffling. Why haven’t editors told Joyce Carole Oates about these fabled semicolons? Are they afraid it will slow her down? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/62 "2009-11-18T09:44:37Z")
“Misspellings sometimes happen,” she murmured. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/63 "2009-11-18T10:55:35Z")
It bothers me when authors put themselves in their books. Mr. Cussler, I’m looking at you. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/64 "2009-11-18T11:26:45Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > The strange affliction that seems to affect a lot of published writers where all the characters manage to have exactly the same voice. Characters share common turns of phrase, bases of metaphor, styles of speech, even when they’re otherwise quite different. Your erudite old philosophy professor speaks exactly the same as a teenage girl. Possibly I hate this one more because I find it hard to avoid in my own writing, but at least i’m not published. Worst offender ever: Nick Hornby. His one book written from a female viewpoint had her comparing lots of the book’s scenarios to scenes out of _Star Wars_. While I don’t doubt that there are some women who might do this, it did strike me as absurdly convenient that a well-known geeky-blokey author, writing a woman’s voice for the first time, gave her a stereotypically geeky-blokey voice. Do they not have editors, these people? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/65 "2009-11-18T11:43:13Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Not that I would call it bad writing, but bad mechanics: the misuse or, more often, absence of semicolons in books not only by bad authors, but respected ones, is baffling. Why haven’t editors told Joyce Carole Oates about these fabled semicolons? Are they afraid it will slow her down? Vonnegut once opined that semicolons are unnecessary. I think he’s usually right. My experience is that semicolons usually mean “I am stapling a sentence fragment to the end of this sentence.” ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/66 "2009-11-18T15:08:59Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It bothers me when authors put themselves in their books. Mr. Cussler, I’m looking at you. And when the author puts himself in the book as the literal center of the universe, it’s just plain creepy. I’m reading Stephen King’s _Dark Tower_ books right now, and they’re very good, but the bit where his fictional characters think of him as God and/or The Man Who Makes Things Real… it weirds me out. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/67 "2009-11-18T15:59:11Z")
I admit to not using semi-colons very often, in fact I think I’m 57k into my NanoWriMo and haven’t used one once. Maybe I should look into that… ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/68 "2009-11-18T16:05:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > “Misspellings sometimes happen,” she murmured. > > 😉 I’ve been burned by spellcheckers many, many times. Without paying attention, I accept the checker’s substitution. Much later, I’ll realize it switched words on me. :smack: A few letters makes a big difference. Especially something I’m turning in to my boss. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/69 "2009-11-18T16:15:36Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > I had to stop reading Anne Rice for using “preternatural” every other paragraph and Stephen King for all of the, “And he/she was never seen again,” “he/she was never seen in recognizable form again.” Dean Koontz likes preternatural too. Ditto on King’s foreshadowing, but what he does is so obvious that foreshadowing is probably the wrong word to describe it. It adds a wee bit of tension but removes the element of surprise. He spoils his own books. Another aspect of bad writing (and it’s been mentioned) is poor characterization, particularly with villains. Unless your villain is an alien or a vampire or a rabid dog (or in a James Bond novel), you need to give him some ambiguity. Humans aren’t all good or all bad, and a villain who’s all bad is boring. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/70 "2009-11-18T20:19:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Vonnegut once opined that semicolons are unnecessary. I think he’s usually right. My experience is that semicolons usually mean “I am stapling a sentence fragment to the end of this sentence.” They certainly shouldn’t mean that. When a semicolon is used to join clauses they must both be independent; using one to append a fragment would be an error in syntax. It would be unconscionable; a gratuitous violation of correct grammar. 😉 > [@AuntiePam](#): > > Another aspect of bad writing (and it’s been mentioned) is poor characterization, particularly with villains. Unless your villain is an alien or a vampire or a rabid dog (or in a James Bond novel), you need to give him some ambiguity. And even aliens and vampires need convincing motivations! It’s lazy writing either way to have villains who are bad just for the sake of the plot. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/71 "2009-11-18T20:27:27Z")
> [@rexnervous](#): > > Yes, many times yes. In a thread a few years ago here on SMDB about The DaVinci Code, someone called it ‘Artificial Stupidity’ (of which, natch, TDC had a ton). Author uses dialogue (usually, although it can be internal dialogue) to explain a topic to the reader - without understanding that the dialogue would never take place in reality. Totally takes me out of the book. Very prevalent in 1930s science fiction, which often had a bit of dialog like this: Tom went to the wall and flipped a switch. "Isn’t it amazing that when I do this a stream of electrons we call electricity flows through a wire in the wall, created by massive generating plants many miles away, and the, with the switch now closed, flows through a filament in a globe of glass we call a light bulb, where the resistance causes the filament to glow and thus light the room. " This bit of dialog was sometimes preceded by “as you know” which just made it worse. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/72 "2009-11-18T20:32:53Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > They certainly shouldn’t mean that. When a semicolon is used to join clauses they must both be independent; using one to append a fragment would be an error in syntax… I would know better than to use a semicolon there, but I am often uncertain what punctuation mark to use to apend such a fragment. A simple comma perhaps? A hyphen? What? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/73 "2009-11-18T20:52:42Z")
> [@rexnervous](#): > > Give me the author who has two paramedics talking and saying something like “yeah, had a GSW come in yesterday” and who NEVER explains that ‘GSW’ is shorthand for Gunshot Wound. Let the dynamics of the situation explain it. Not a book, but _CSI_ is notorious for having the techs explain things to each other. Or the coroner will explain things to the techs. Or the lab guys will explain things to the techs. Say what you want about _ER_, but it took me a few episodes to figure out what the hell LOC meant when the paramedics were wheeling in a gurney. That’s all they hollered and we got stuck with having to noodle it out for ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/74 "2009-11-18T22:13:47Z")
> [@Daddypants](#): > > For me it is dialogue, this goes for tv and movies as well. When two people are talking it should be written how two people actually talk. Most people do not speak grammatically correct and that’s how it should be written. I’ll go with the opposite of this: narrative that reads like dialogue. Granted, I mostly see this in “amateur” fiction posted on story message boards. Then somebody will criticize it in the comments, and the author will get all defensive and claim, “I’m just writing like I would talk!” They just don’t grasp that there should be a clear distinction between dialogue and narrative. I’ve read some stories where the only distinction was the quotation marks around the dialogue. I’m sorry, the fact that your story is set in East L.A. and your main characters are black does not mean that the narrative should be written in hip-hop slang. I suppose part of the problem, though, is the “message board” aspect. These people are accustomed to writing in a conversational style when participating in what is, essentially, a conversation, and they can’t draw a distinction between that and a story. So maybe it’s the medium getting in the way (and some have come out and confessed that they actually compose their stories in the text box, rather than writing the story in a text editor or word processor and then copy/pasting it into the text box). > [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > I’ve read a few books where it’s very, very obvious that the author wants someone to make a movie out of it. Like the way the narrative shifts back and forth from one “scene” to another. I know the existence of movies has changed the way people conceive of plots and characters and narratives in general, and that’s totally legitimate. But when you read something that’s supposed to be a novel, and there’s no doubt whatsoever that the author had the screenplay firmly in mind when he wrote it, that’s distracting to me. Michael Crichton was supposedly famous for this, and the one book of his I read, _Timeline_, was definitely guilty. In fact, I think they did make a movie out of it, but it wasn’t a big hit. Oh dear Og, yes. My thoughts on Michael Crichton exactly. I had seen and enjoyed _The Andromeda Strain_ a few times without realizing there was a novel version. So when I spotted the novel I decided to pick it up and read it … and spent the entire time feeling like I was reading a script. > [@HPL](#): > > I feel a little better now. Some people I’ve shown my work to have complained because I didn’t physically describe my characters physically(build, eye color, hair color, etc). My response is usally that I couldn’t really tell you what they look like despite a general idea. > > \ > > I’m all for good character development, but I don’t consider their looks to really matter, particulary when it comes to writing. Unless the looks are important to the character or the plot or the atmosphere. Maybe it’s the books I grew up reading. Agreed. OTOH, in my own writing (mostly erotic fiction of the kinkier variety) providing a physical description is somewhat more necessary. Having a firm picture of the character in my mind helps me with characterization, so most of my characters are based physically either on somebody I know (something I’ve tried to get away from in recent years because it was getting to where every time I’d interact with the real person I couldn’t avoid thinking about my little pornographic story with the character who looks just like them) or on a photo of a model I’ve found on the Internet (which avoids the aforementioned problem since I’m unlikely to ever meet the model in person). Even so, I don’t go into excruciating detail describing a character’s appearance; I give a “general” description (… Becky was a cute blonde …) and only go into more specific detail if the plot makes it necessary. > [@rexnervous](#): > > Give me the author who has two paramedics talking and saying something like “yeah, had a GSW come in yesterday” and who NEVER explains that ‘GSW’ is shorthand for Gunshot Wound. Let the dynamics of the situation explain it. > > Bad author would have one paramedic say “GSW? Do you mean Gunshot Wound?” I would have a problem with a character _speaking_ in acronyms that, while they are _written_ shorthand, they are the opposite when _spoken_. i.e. “Gee-ess-doubleyou” (5 syllables) vs. “gunshot wound” (3 syllables), or for that matter, speaking an acronym that isn’t any kind of verbal shorthand at all (“Yes, I’m an HS graduate!”) Of course, I guess some people do that in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/75 "2009-11-18T22:23:10Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Say what you want about _ER_, but it took me a few episodes to figure out what the hell LOC meant when the paramedics were wheeling in a gurney. Library of Congress? Come on, man. What does that mean. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/76 "2009-11-18T23:09:58Z")
[Novels that are largely padding](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=540420) ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/77 "2009-11-18T23:27:22Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Library of Congress? Come on, man. What does that mean. LOC = loss of consciousness. (I think.) ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/78 "2009-11-19T00:48:34Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > LOC = loss of consciousness. (I think.) Yep. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/79 "2009-11-19T04:17:12Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > Not only that, but they’d be speaking in Latin _anyway!_ Why on earth is “contio” the only word not implicitly translated in that sentence, and why would they repeat themselves? > > In dialogue writing where it’s understood that the words are being translated to the language of the rest of the narrative for the convenience of the reader, this is an irritatingly common, blindingly stupid, and completely unforgivable conceit. I just want to track down writers who do this and smack them with a carp until they apologize. This bugs me too. A word or two here or there I can tolerate. It’s when all of a sudden, you see a phrase in a foriegn lanugage…which is the same language they are supposed to be Speaking. It makes you wonder why that passage just seemed to fail to be translated. The Film King Arthur did this with Roman “knights” accompanying monks, who all of a sudden start speaking in Latin. So what were they speaking before that they could all understand each other? I’ve read a translation of Les Miserables that had certain passages in French, with no translation in the text. It’s really annoying when the entire book is set in France and you presume all the characters are speaking French(translated for your convience). The Corollary to that would be words that stick out because they sound suspiciously foreign to the culture/time period/setting. Using the word “Valkryie”(very German) in a story set in Ancient China is going to stick out like a sore thumb. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727/80 "2009-11-19T06:18:11Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I get unreasonably annoyed with the word “murmer”. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > “Misspellings sometimes happen,” she murmured. > 😉 Hah! I need to put this in the thread of stupid things I always forget. Though in this case, always means once, as I’ve never had occasion to write this word before, and hope never to again. Yesterday, I couldn’t spell “burden” without looking it up. I tell you, after a certain unnamed age, things start escaping your brain, never to return. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve been burned by spellcheckers many, many times. Without paying attention, I accept the checker’s substitution. Much later, I’ll realize it switched words on me. :smack: A few letters makes a big difference. Especially something I’m turning in to my boss. My daughter turned in a high-school paper last spring describing “Troy of Feces”. I finally figured out it was supposed to be about the play “Fences”. Spellcheck 1, proofreader 0. As to “It would be unconscionable; a gratuitous violation of correct grammar.” - I would replace the semicolon with a comma. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-aspect-of-bad-writing-bothers-you-the-most/517727.md?page=5)