# What atheists think, and why (in re: GEEPERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 27, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150 "2012-04-27T16:57:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/361 "2012-05-01T21:33:33Z")
This thread is a pretty good representation of why I became an atheist. The arguments presented by the faithful were grotesquely fallacious. After about the tenth time they tried to tell me that the Bible was the inerrant word of God – and then cited the Bible to show why this was so – I realized they had nothing. The fact that a bunch of God’s loving servants beat the shit out of me when I expressed my concerns turned me into a hate-filled atheist. But, later, on a discussion board very similar to this one, I had the luck to meet a kind, gentle, generous, and very patient (!) Christian, who, over time, managed to talk me down from my hatred. He helped me, and even healed me, using the soft answer that turns away wrath. I only wish that there were a lot more like him, and fewer of the kind I encountered in my early days of questioning. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/362 "2012-05-01T21:41:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I have faith FinnAgain’s efforts will be hailed as a noble if futile effort at bringing light to darkness. As always, selah. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/363 "2012-05-01T21:51:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I have faith FinnAgain’s efforts will be hailed as a noble if futile effort at bringing light to darkness. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > As always, selah. You’re gonna need a bigger light. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/364 "2012-05-01T21:59:31Z")
No, just more time. Yes, it’s taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/365 "2012-05-01T22:24:35Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I’ll be creating a new thread on the intellectually dishonest behavior of atheists in the near future. Make sure you fully understand the meaning of the term ‘intellectually dishonest’ before you start. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/366 "2012-05-01T23:32:39Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Well, what’s the point of worshipping a merciful and all-loving God if He lets just anyone into Paradise? I mean, being one of the Elect has to be worth something, otherwise you won’t get to laugh at all those smart alecks who should be burning in Hell for daring to have a different relationship with the Allmighty… Well to address this, the idea of cloud surfing angels laughing at people is problematic. First off taking joy in someone else’s pain is not very christian. > [@GEEPERS](#): > > First, admit that I’m not completely wrong about everything, and we’ll start from there. First admit that you are not completely RIGHT about everything and we’ll start from there. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Are all of these 90% ‘true’ Christians, in your estimation? God I hope not! ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/367 "2012-05-01T23:35:35Z")
As I said earlier it is people like Geepers who do a lot to turn some people atheist, who would want to be in his company and be tarred with the same brush? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/368 "2012-05-02T00:45:08Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Well to address this, the idea of cloud surfing angels laughing at people is problematic. Now I have this image of a bunch of shirtless muscular blond angels standing around on clouds calling each other “dude”. “Yo, dude! Wanna catch that thunderhead?” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/369 "2012-05-02T01:43:30Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > There you have it, folks. Read below the bloated brass talk, and you’ll see this man’s clear dishonesty. He could not even answer two simple questions. > > The real answer is he doesn’t even know himself. > > Answer the questions or be ignored. You are out of line. This thread was started to give atheists a chance to explain their actual perspectives on various religious issues. You have chosen to ignore and ridicule all of them, making the egregious claim that no atheist posters had actually been honest in their statements. Further, you invented a martyr scenario in which you have pretended that the only purpose for the thread was to gang up on you. This has all been pretty silly stuff that is failing to persuade anyone–atheist, theist, deist, or agnostic–that any of your assertions have any validity, but you are free to display your inability to address the actual points of the thread. However, directly accusing another poster of dishonesty is a violation of the rules. If you continue to make those sorts of claims, you will be Warned. Further, this whole schtick of exclaiming that other posters are not worth your time, (while you continue to engage them), is insulting. You can knock it off, as well. No one has compelled you to participate in this thread. If it is not worth your time, simply ignore it. Continuing to participate in a thread while repeatedly declaring it a waste of time is an example of threadshitting. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/370 "2012-05-02T05:38:58Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Well to address this, the idea of cloud surfing angels laughing at people is problematic. First off taking joy in someone else’s pain is not very christian. I agree, but would like to point out this was a very orthordox doctrine in the Middle Ages. For example, a widespread belief in the pre-Reformation Church was that the small minority of people who were accepted into heaven would enjoy being allowed to watch the vast majoity of people as they were tortured in Hell. St. Thomas Aquinas wrote: “In order that nothing may be wanting to the felicity of the blessed spirits in heaven, a perfect view is granted to them of the tortures of the damned.” _Summa Theologica_, Third Part, Supplement, Question XCIV, Of the Relations of the Saints Towards the Damned, First Article, ---
**Author:** ![opmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9d8465/32.png) [@opmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/opmike)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/371 "2012-05-02T06:26:44Z")
Many here laid their viewpoints out completely for all to read of why they don’t harbor a belief in higher powers referred to as god/gods. GEEPERS has blatantly come out and said that he outright doesn’t believe what people are posting. This has been a position that he’s maintained throughout the thread. Most of his replies have been responses to those he feel is attacking him and he refuses to acknowledge specific points when they are raised again and again. Are we not wasting our time trying to debate someone with a martyr complex that feel we are all out to deceive him? It’s impossible to even establish a dialoge under such circumstances, and that’s exactly what we’re seeing here. ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/372 "2012-05-02T07:51:26Z")
> [@opmike](#): > > Many here laid their viewpoints out completely for all to read of why they don’t harbor a belief in higher powers referred to as god/gods. GEEPERS has blatantly come out and said that he outright doesn’t believe what people are posting. This has been a position that he’s maintained throughout the thread. Most of his replies have been responses to those he feel is attacking him and he refuses to acknowledge specific points when they are raised again and again. > > Are we not wasting our time trying to debate someone with a martyr complex that feel we are all out to deceive him? It’s impossible to even establish a dialoge under such circumstances, and that’s exactly what we’re seeing here. True, but there’s always a chance of a **GEEPERS** Lite out there lurking. If there’s any chance that this thread, and others like it, lead him to analyse and refine his beliefs it’s worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/373 "2012-05-02T08:25:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Of course, **GEEPERS** has a problem there; his claims are full of logical fallacies and just are plain factually, demonstrably wrong. If he eliminated all the fallacies, what would be left? Not sure - we never really got to the substance of whatever it is **GEEPERS** is claiming (if there is any substance), because copious use of fallacy provokes a pile-on in which everyone picks at the failings of the argument, rather than the position it represents. It could be argued that I’m just another voice in that pile-on, I guess, but what I was trying to do was to get **GEEPERS** to realise that the formal descriptions of logical fallacies are not the enemy of debate, but rather, can be used as a pre-flight check for one’s mouth - i.e “Can I find a way to express this without resorting to logical fallacy? - if not, in what sense am I actually right?” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/374 "2012-05-02T08:45:55Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I don’t have the time or energy to address everyone’s charges, or construct air tight responses within seconds that pass your fallacy tests. Then you’re wasting everyone’s time, including your own - and I mean that in the kindest possible way. If you really can’t spare the effort to avoid using _arguments that are obviously and inherently flawed - regardless of the truth or otherwise of your position_, then you’re literally wasting everyone’s time trying to debate your position. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/375 "2012-05-02T10:08:07Z")
> [@PBear42](#): > > I agree, but would like to point out this was a very orthordox doctrine in the Middle Ages. For example, a widespread belief in the pre-Reformation Church was that the small minority of people who were accepted into heaven would enjoy being allowed to watch the vast majoity of people as they were tortured in Hell. St. Thomas Aquinas wrote: “In order that nothing may be wanting to the felicity of the blessed spirits in heaven, a perfect view is granted to them of the tortures of the damned.” _Summa Theologica_, Third Part, Supplement, Question XCIV, Of the Relations of the Saints Towards the Damned, First Article, Yeah, I tend to have incorporated a lot of that Old-Time Religion into my system. I use it to mock the statements made by persons of unexamined faith. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/376 "2012-05-02T10:25:46Z")
Apropos of nothing, every time we get one of these “my faith trumps your facts, logic and evidence” threads I like to pretend that a hit squad of Jesuits is going to drive up to the poster’s house, kick the door in and drag them away for deprogramming. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/377 "2012-05-02T13:11:46Z")
Some view faith as a shield, others as a sword… Now we see it used as a sneer. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/378 "2012-05-02T14:16:58Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Apropos of nothing, every time we get one of these “my faith trumps your facts, logic and evidence” threads I like to pretend that a hit squad of Jesuits is going to drive up to the poster’s house, kick the door in and drag them away for deprogramming. “No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition!” ---
**Author:** ![GEEPERS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@GEEPERS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GEEPERS)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/379 "2012-05-02T14:20:17Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Bullshit. > You provided one link to “[the Miracle story of Dr.Sean George](http://www.seangeorge.com.au/)”, as told by… Dr. Sean George. You also offered some glurge on a conference for “divine healing”. Of course, if such was an actual phenomena you should be able to find thousands of papers demonstrating that it is real. They should be free on pubmed, too. > > When you start providing support we’ll stop saying you haven’t provided any. I’m sorry, I know I said I was not returning and should just let it go, but I can not remain quiet on this post when Finn’s statements here are grossly inaccurate and an example of dishonesty. I have returned merely to address this specific point and this point only. First, I provided two links, not one so you’re dishonest already on that account. #218. Also, this conference is not some silly revival meeting. It is about providing medical evidence of healing with hundreds of doctors from around the world participating. You dimissed these doctors as all quacks without knowing a single thing about their education or background. That’s being intellectual dishonest. It’s ridiculous to suggest that a respected doctor would jeopardize his career to fabricate a story, and somehow fabricate medical records like his EKG tests. Futhermore, I understand that the case was documented in Australian medical journals, and referenced in a Reuters article: [http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/17/idUS32682+17-Jun-2011+PRN20110617](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/17/idUS32682+17-Jun-2011+PRN20110617) Here’s a story of a deaf woman who could suddenly hear after receiving prayer with scanned images of medical documentation of the case: [http://www.wcdn.org/wcdn\_eng/case/case\_content.asp?id=20&page=5](http://www.wcdn.org/wcdn_eng/case/case_content.asp?id=20&page=5) Of course, you’ll never see such stories in a secular atheist publication because an atheist will never admit that divine healing is real. Also, doctors and medical staff are reluntant to present a patient’s case as a miracle out of fear that their career could suffer especially if their peers happen to be non-Christians. This could lead to criticism that perhaps that doctor failed to document properly or missed a reading. So it’s not real surprise why we don’t see thousands of cases in medical journals. Anyways, I don’t see how you people can boldly claim that I have not presented any support for my posts. Of course ,you will continue to do so and immediately reject this post, as well as offer ridicule because I have returned after my exit. The TRUTH is that I have not presented any evidence that YOU will accept, AND YOU will accept NONE. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150/380 "2012-05-02T14:28:28Z")
> [@GEEPERS](#): > > I understand that the case was documented in Australian medical journals, and referenced in a Reuters article: > > [http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/17/idUS32682+17-Jun-2011+PRN20110617](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/17/idUS32682+17-Jun-2011+PRN20110617) That’s not an article. It’s a press release. > [@](#): > > Here’s a story of a deaf woman who could suddenly hear after receiving prayer with scanned images of medical documentation of the case: > > [http://www.wcdn.org/wcdn\_eng/case/case\_content.asp?id=20&page=5](http://www.wcdn.org/wcdn_eng/case/case_content.asp?id=20&page=5) Can you demonstrate that the prayers were related to her improvement? And about that Biblical history stuff… were you ever going to get back to it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-atheists-think-and-why-in-re-geepers/620150.md?page=20)