# What band/artist was the biggest sellout? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 10, 2016, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782 "2016-04-10T08:50:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/21 "2016-04-10T17:32:43Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > How about a counter-example - ever listened to Rush’s first album? Working Man is a great song, but a pretty obvious Sabbath rip-off. The rest of the album isn’t bad, but highly derivative throughout. (Which explains Geddy Lee as a vocalist - he channeled Robert Plant pretty well, actually). Then they traded in the drummer for Neil Peart, and went in the opposite direction. Of course some would say they “sold out” with Moving Pictures… Rush is an unusual case among proggy-type bands. As good as albums like _2112_ and _Hemispheres_ are, I think they got _better_ when their music became more focused and concise. “Tom Sawyer” is a fucking awesome song in my book. ---
**Author:** ![btcg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@btcg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btcg)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/22 "2016-04-10T17:40:46Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Rush is an unusual case among proggy-type bands. As good as albums like _2112_ and _Hemispheres_ are, I think they got _better_ Lee has always been accused of trying to hijack Rik Emmet’s sound, and there’s a lot of truth in that. But… Emmet’s the real deal: Lee’s attempts sound like a rusty hinge. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/23 "2016-04-10T17:55:49Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I guess I don’t automatically see moving in a more radio-friendly as selling out. There is nothing wrong with seeking a wider audience. Metallica’s black album was tremendous, and if that’s selling out, well then yay for selling out. Same with Rush’s Moving Pictures. In neither case did they abandon their artistic integrity. One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/24 "2016-04-10T17:58:08Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Oddly enough, the first name to pop into my head was Nat King Cole. Cole was an accomplished jazz pianist who occasionally sang jazz songs, and was fairly successful at it. As his voice got more attention than his piano work, he started singing more, and by the late 40s was doing pop numbers, which remained his genre for the rest of his days. To be fair, history is littered with jazz musicians who had to compromise in order to eat regularly. I’m not sure I’d label it “selling out” but it certainly was unfortunate. As great a singer as he was, NKC was an even greater jazz pianist. IMO, one of the very best. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/25 "2016-04-10T18:15:03Z")
> [@btcg](#): > > What’s wrong with it? Well, let’s look at the ultimate protest band of the early 1970’s: Grand Funk Railroad. > > Here’s a pure protest band that fires their manager (Terry Knight) because he suggested a few changes to make money, and then turn around and do the very thing they criticized him for: they put out an album laced with commercialism and bubble-gum songs- ‘We’re An American Band’ > > Hypocrites! Pure protest band? They needed money? Were an American band is bubblegum? Where do I start with this? They were a sellout right from the beginning, second rate cream, and pop mix. They were commercially huge. They had a fallow period. Then they made a giant comeback with a great rock and roll song. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/26 "2016-04-10T18:17:39Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > When The Shaggs (like, decades after the fact) and Jandek finally decided to play live. Jandek sold out with “Staring at the Cellophane” man! ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/27 "2016-04-10T18:18:23Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I’ve always disliked this line of thinking. For one, it was the “black album” which got me _into_ Metallica in the first place, and I worked my way backwards through their discography after that. Second, any time I hear someone gripe “sell-out,” what I really interpret that as is “how dare they do anything different from when I discovered them!!” I should have included a caveat: this was criticism that I heard and read about. The way I worded my response indicated that I agreed 100% with that criticism. I don’t, but I see the point that the critics made: > [@Wiki](#): > > An example of artists being accused of selling out is the band Metallica, whose 1991 eponymous album has been considered the turning point in the band’s musical direction;[10] the band members were called the “poster boys for musical un-integrity” after the band attempted to sue fans who were downloading their music through Napster.[11] The album, known as The Black Album, saw critics[10] and Bob Rock,[12] the album’s producer, acknowledged that there was a move away from the band’s previous sound. Rock claimed that the change stemmed from the band’s desire to “make the leap to the big, big leagues”,[12] whilst some fans blamed Rock himself, going as far to eventually create an internet petition demanding the band cut their ties with him.[10] However, other fans did not consider the change in sound to be significant enough to be considered selling out,[9] and others accepted the change as part of a natural evolution of the band’s style.[13] Ultimately The Black Album became the band’s most commercially successful release,[9] going 16x platinum.[11] The differing reaction by fans to the album demonstrates the difficulty in labelling an artist as a sellout objectively. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/28 "2016-04-10T18:37:14Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Because that’s the very DEFINITION of a sellout. Both of those bands sacrificed their artistic ambition for the sake of a big payday. And for the record, no one was “tiring” of Genesis’s prog format–in the UK their albums from 1973 on reliably charted in the Top 10, and although they were much less well known in the USA, their popularity was steadily increasing here. Of course, once they started releasing pop singles, in parallel with Phil Collins’s equally poppy solo career, they became Top 10 regulars _here_ and #1 charters at home. A couple months ago, I had the local NPR station on that plays mostly classical music during the day. At the end of one piece, the announcer said what the previous piece was called and who performed it, and added, “composed and conducted by Tony Banks.” I thought, THAT Tony Banks? Sure was. The fortune he made with Genesis allows him to do things like this. 🆒 While we’re on the subject of prog sellouts, Yes were probably the ultimate ones. Their 1980s output was awful. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/29 "2016-04-10T18:40:48Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > How about bands who sold out only to find that no one was buying? Gentle Giant struggled for years purveying a particularly intricate brand of prog-rock and never made it past the lower/middle reaches of the charts. When they finally made a concerted effort to “go commercial,” however, it bombed miserably. The same thing can be said about Starcastle, although in their case, their “commercial” album was deliberately bad in order to give the finger to the record company. It even had a Richard Avedon-photographed cover; he had a thing for photographing straight hairy men with their bellies exposed. :dubious: All of their 1970s output is available for purchase as mp3s on their website, except for the songs from that last album. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/30 "2016-04-10T18:41:22Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > I’m not sure I’d label it “selling out” but it certainly was unfortunate. As great a singer as he was, NKC was an even greater jazz pianist. IMO, one of the very best. Being great and making a living being great can be at odds. I don’t fault him for making a paycheck, and I agree that ‘selling out’ has a negative connotation. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/31 "2016-04-10T18:44:29Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > How about a counter-example - ever listened to Rush’s first album? Working Man is a great song, but a pretty obvious Sabbath rip-off. The rest of the album isn’t bad, but highly derivative throughout. (Which explains Geddy Lee as a vocalist - he channeled Robert Plant pretty well, actually). Then they traded in the drummer for Neil Peart, and went in the opposite direction. Of course some would say they “sold out” with Moving Pictures… > > I guess I don’t automatically see moving in a more radio-friendly as selling out. There is nothing wrong with seeking a wider audience. Metallica’s black album was tremendous, and if that’s selling out, well then yay for selling out. Same with Rush’s Moving Pictures. In neither case did they abandon their artistic integrity. > > In some cases, such a breakthrough album can lead to a more genuine sell-out, and thus can be mistakenly seen as the sell-out itself. But sudden widespread popularity can happen organically. Had John Rutsey not been a Type 1 diabetic, Rush would have put out a couple of albums and then been promptly forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/32 "2016-04-10T19:34:25Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > A couple months ago, I had the local NPR station on that plays mostly classical music during the day. At the end of one piece, the announcer said what the previous piece was called and who performed it, and added, “composed and conducted by Tony Banks.” I thought, THAT Tony Banks? Sure was. > > The fortune he made with Genesis allows him to do things like this. 🆒 > > While we’re on the subject of prog sellouts, Yes were probably the ultimate ones. Their 1980s output was awful. Were they even the same band? They were plenty successful with their good stuff. I think they ran out of ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Apocalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/33 "2016-04-10T19:55:54Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I’ve always disliked this line of thinking. For one, it was the “black album” which got me _into_ Metallica in the first place, and I worked my way backwards through their discography after that. Second, any time I hear someone gripe “sell-out,” what I really interpret that as is “how dare they do anything different from when I discovered them!!” Some people seem to act like whatever music they latched onto during adolescence somehow “belongs” to them. > > IMO what really happens is that these bands get _older,_ their tastes and lives change, and the music they create reflects that. When _Kill 'em All_ was released, Metallica was a handful of young 20-something guys who got drunk a lot and hated the then-current crop of hair metal bands. Now they’re in their 50s, have families, and (especially in James Hetfield’s case) simply aren’t physically able to perform the same way anymore. 30 years of screaming takes a toll on one’s voice. > > as a more recent example, I’ve been a fan of Slipknot for a while. But their front man Corey Taylor seems to have been paying more attention to the more mainstream Stone Sour for a while now. Sell out? nah. I think he’s honestly [seeing the point where he can’t keep up with Slipknot anymore.](http://www.metalinjection.net/shocking-revelations/corey-taylor-isnt-sure-how-much-longer-hell-last-in-slipknot) The black Album was released in 1991. It is widely acknowledged that their sound changed during and after that album. I don’t see what that has to do with how old Hetfield and co are today. In some cases of the other bands being discussed here I could see where age would be a factor though. But Metallica was fairly young back then, and fairly successful/well known before the Black Album - but moreso after it. > [@bump](#): > > I’d say they really sold out a little bit later than the “Black Album”- there were still several old-school songs on that album. “Load” (the next album, and 5 years after the “Black Album”) is where they really sold out. No real fast songs, several Top 40 hits, short hair, etc… Because they had a few old school songs on the Black Album it wasn’t a sellout album? IMO they had a few good songs on …And Justice for All, but that’s when the sellout started. They started to get a lot of preppies at their shows around then. Of course this is my opinion, but I feel strongly about it. I was the biggest fan of theirs back in the day, and remember trying to get people to listen to RtL when it came out. At this point I refuse to listen to anything other than the first 2 albums, and I’ll only hear those if someone else insists on it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/34 "2016-04-10T20:23:09Z")
> [@Apocalypso](#): > > IMO they had a few good songs on …And Justice for All, but that’s when the sellout started. They started to get a lot of preppies at their shows around then. Of course this is my opinion, but I feel strongly about it. I was the biggest fan of theirs back in the day, and remember trying to get people to listen to RtL when it came out. At this point I refuse to listen to anything other than the first 2 albums, and I’ll only hear those if someone else insists on it. **Justice** was a sell-out album? The one where pretty much every song was over seven minutes long? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/35 "2016-04-10T20:29:32Z")
The Offspring went from catchy punk-rock to novelty act very quickly. The Black Eyed Peas were once a backpack hip-hop group, then they added Fergie to the lineup and went straight up pop. Aerosmith after they sobered up went in an explicitly commercial direction, even using outside songwriters. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/36 "2016-04-10T20:50:30Z")
I thought the answer was always ‘Nickelback’. At one time, all you had to do to start a snowball fight in a college town in February was to walk down the street and shout, “Nickelback…!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/37 "2016-04-10T21:01:36Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Gentle Giant Great - thanks for the “Just the Same” earworm. Billy Joel, going from: ("Holy Moses!.......she supposes!.....") to: the Piano Man to: flashy “We Didn’t Start the Fire” guy If I ever get the chance to meet BJ on his deathbed, I’d like to have the Atilla album cover with me and show him the wonderful legacy he left behind. I think that would perk him up. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/38 "2016-04-10T21:07:54Z")
Come to think of it, Sugar Ray, which was never in my top 1300 to begin with, did actually have a quite harder-edged sound before they came up with the diluted, Charmin-soft “Someday”. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/39 "2016-04-10T21:10:54Z")
The Goo Goo Dolls were a longstanding punk band that got a hit with the ballad Iris, and went full-on adult contemporary. And Johnny Rzezezezznick went from snotty punk dude to heart throb… ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/40 "2016-04-10T21:19:21Z")
I thought selling out meant taking millions of dollars from Pepsi or Chrysler to feature your songs to sell their products, not the process of the evolution of a band becoming successful. Everyone wants to be successful. When you start taking advantage of the thing that you made that other people love SO MUCH, you become a sell-out and that’s when you lose the fans that made you what you are in the first place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782.md?page=3)