# What band/artist was the biggest sellout? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 10, 2016, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782 "2016-04-10T08:50:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/81 "2016-04-11T19:23:09Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Another thing to consider is that fact that, in many, many instances, it was the _fans_, not the artist, who slapped a “definition” on them. The artist came out doing what they felt like doing at the time, and a certain segment of the music-buying public latched onto what they were doing, and proceeded to put the artist in a box. Then the artist took an interest in something different and … now they’ve “sold out”. I agree… and that’s why I was trying to distinguish between what you described and what I consider really selling out, which is when a band starts changing their styles solely to chase commercial success rather than according to any sort of internal artistic compass. That’s why I think that Metallica’s black album wasn’t selling out- just them marching to their own drum, while “Load” was the sell-out album- they (to me, anyway), clearly started chasing the money right about then, and started getting cranky about piracy about the same time. (I suspect that Metallica ca. 1985 might not have cared nearly so much) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/82 "2016-04-11T20:39:28Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Johnny Cash. He became the Michael Bolton of country music. I hurt myself today, when I read this comment. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > While we’re on the subject of prog sellouts, Yes were probably the ultimate ones. Their 1980s output was awful. They deceived their free will. One shouldn’t do that at all. > [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > In 1981, Fee Waybill of the Tubes openly admitted that “The Completion Backwards Principle” was a sellout, saying that the band owed a huge amount of money ($600,000?) and they were never going to pay it off by catering to the 150,000 Tubes fans who bought their releases and went to their shows. He quoted Lily Tomlin “Remember, they call it show business, not show art”. Of course a guy named “Fee Waybill” is going to be all about the money. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Keep in mind that, by definition, many “legendary” artists “sold out” from the beginning. > > Bon Scott was a backup singer in a popular Australian bubble-gum band when that style was popular. Then he played the recorder in a prog band before finally making it big with AC/DC. Same way with the Clash. Frilly-shirted ukulele-playing hippies, [until](http://www.cracked.com/article_23644_5-reasons-music-industry-even-shadier-than-you-think.html) a corporate manager packaged them as “the only band that matters.” ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/83 "2016-04-11T21:05:13Z")
The Who only put out 2 albums before they decided to [Sell Out](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who_Sell_Out). John and Keith in particular masterminded some of the jingles hoping to acquire free stuff from Rotosound guitar strings, Premier Drums and John Mason’s luxury car dealership. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/84 "2016-04-11T21:13:47Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > You could argue that Metallica sold out when they started writing and releasing songs about themselves with their name in the lyrics. Or Wang Chung. 😛 [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/BoXu6QmxpJE/maxresdefault.jpg "Wang Chung - Everybody Have Fun Tonight (Official Music Video)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXu6QmxpJE) ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/85 "2016-04-11T22:12:32Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I agree… and that’s why I was trying to distinguish between what you described and what I consider really selling out, which is when a band starts changing their styles solely to chase commercial success rather than according to any sort of internal artistic compass. > > That’s why I think that Metallica’s black album wasn’t selling out- just them marching to their own drum, while “Load” was the sell-out album- they (to me, anyway), clearly started chasing the money right about then, and started getting cranky about piracy about the same time. (I suspect that Metallica ca. 1985 might not have cared nearly so much) By that definition, any artist that starts making “too” much money is selling out. What if an artist changes styles and it is a flop, commercially. Is that selling-out? Too many flops and the artist looses a record deal and fails. It sounds like selling-out has to do with an artist’s perceived success among their fans. The fans want them to be successful enough to keep producing the music the fan wants, but not so successful that they are rolling in money. Once that happens, they’ve sold-out, right? If you like an artist, go ahead and buy the music. If not, don’t buy it. But don’t not buy an artist’s music because they are perceived as a sell-out. ---
**Author:** ![DMGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@DMGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/86 "2016-04-11T22:28:10Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Genesis never sold out. After Gabriel left, A Trick of the Tale, The Wind and Wuthering, And then There Were Three, and especially Duke, were prog rocks albums. The last 3 had one radio-friendly ‘hit’ per album. But they were getting older and _their_ tastes were changing. > > If you keep doing the same stuff, even though your own passions have shifted…isn’t THAT selling out? I have to disagree with you about Duke being prog rock. There’s a couple of good songs written by Tony Banks, but I would say that Duke’s Travels/Duke’s End is the only prog on the album. The first two albums without Gabriel, Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering were definitely progressive. After Hackett left is when the real stylistic change happened. They obviously sold a lot more albums later on, but the music never moved me the way their earlier stuff (1969-1977) did. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/87 "2016-04-11T22:51:33Z")
How is Ice Cube not on this list? From “Fuck tha Police” and “No Vaseline” and “AmeriKKKa’s Most Wanted…” …to “Are We Done Yet?” Sellout central. And it’s not like he even needed the money. But you know what they say is better than money… more money. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/88 "2016-04-11T23:29:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Exactly… “And Justice For All” was the first album where they were getting kind of artsy-ish, with the long, “meaningful” songs, and they more or less extended that on "Metallica’ (black album) with a pair of ballads (Unforgiven and Nothing Else Matters) on an album that was more or less in keeping with their previous albums. > > Nothing wrong with that… good bands do change their sound and evolve over time. But where they sell out (and where Metallica sold out) is when they start evolving more due to external sales pressure / greed, as opposed to internal artistic desire. THAT is selling out, and that’s why “Load” is the point when Metallica sold out- the atypical songs on the “Black Album” were successful, so they basically shifted to that kind of music primarily, because that’s what got them really famous and got them a lot of $$$. :: post snipped :: I saw Metallica on their first tour. I also play guitar. I used to play pretty much all speedy, heavy stuff. These days I play some of that but also some classical, mellow pretty pieces and jazz. Am I a sell out? If I am, why? I still love a cranked amp and a fast angry song. However I am not 15 anymore and also appreciate a much wider range of music. Why should it be any different for Metallica? Why do you think they evolved due to (only) ‘eternal sales pressure/greed’? Slee ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/89 "2016-04-11T23:32:05Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > How is Ice Cube not on this list? > > From “Fuck tha Police” and “No Vaseline” and “AmeriKKKa’s Most Wanted…” > …to “Are We Done Yet?” > Sellout central. And it’s not like he even needed the money. But you know what they say is better than money… more money. I think what people perceive as artists “selling out” is actually the artists _growing up._ ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/90 "2016-04-12T00:08:55Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > How is Ice Cube not on this list? > > From “Fuck tha Police” and “No Vaseline” and “AmeriKKKa’s Most Wanted…” > …to “Are We Done Yet?” > Sellout central. And it’s not like he even needed the money. But you know what they say is better than money… more money. [At first he was like…](http://i.imgur.com/NBcWN.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/91 "2016-04-12T00:41:32Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > The Who only put out 2 albums before they decided to [Sell Out](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who_Sell_Out). John and Keith in particular masterminded some of the jingles hoping to acquire free stuff from Rotosound guitar strings, Premier Drums and John Mason’s luxury car dealership. They were heavily n debt before “Tommy” came out. There is a piece in the film “The Kids are Alright” where Townshend comments that he basically grabbed guitars out of stores and yelled “pay you next week” as he ran out. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/92 "2016-04-12T05:17:49Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I think what people perceive as artists “selling out” is actually the artists _growing up._ Growing out of being gangst is fine. And to be expected. But you can’t do “Are We Done Yet” and simultaneously act gangst. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/93 "2016-04-12T06:14:11Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > In 1981, Fee Waybill of the Tubes openly admitted that “The Completion Backwards Principle” was a sellout, saying that the band owed a huge amount of money ($600,000?) and they were never going to pay it off by catering to the 150,000 Tubes fans who bought their releases and went to their shows. He quoted Lily Tomlin “Remember, they call it show business, not show art”. I really think they have to win here. The difference between [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFltXDMQsQQ) and [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RuJv9i0BWA&nohtml5) could not be starker. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/94 "2016-04-12T07:58:00Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Metallica. When they released the “Black Album,” many critics and fans accused them of selling out in an attempt to sell more records. The lengths of the songs were shortened to more radio-friendly times, they started doing videos (though the first video they did was for “One,” which was off of the previous album). > > And they were accused of selling out even more when the follow-up album was released. They’d cut their hair, and generally seemed like trying to become even more mainstream. Are you sure your not referring to “Load”? Most fans consider the Black Album to be their zenith, and the songs were hardly short. I can get “Nothing Else Matters” turning off a few fans, but lyrically it was a tribute to their fans. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/95 "2016-04-12T07:59:25Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Michael Bolton was a [middling hard rock artist](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga_reU5lasQ) before he became…well, Michael Bolton. Although, to be honest, it wasn’t that far to fall. Not sure if I can call him a sellout if he was a nobody that changed his style and suddenly got noticed. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/96 "2016-04-12T08:01:55Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Because that’s the very DEFINITION of a sellout. Both of those bands sacrificed their artistic ambition for the sake of a big payday. And for the record, no one was “tiring” of Genesis’s prog format–in the UK their albums from 1973 on reliably charted in the Top 10, and although they were much less well known in the USA, their popularity was steadily increasing here. Of course, once they started releasing pop singles, in parallel with Phil Collins’s equally poppy solo career, they became Top 10 regulars _here_ and #1 charters at home. That’s kinda where I was going with this thread. If a band was doing well why pop out to make a quick buck and embarrass yourself? That’s what Jefferson Airplane did. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/97 "2016-04-12T08:05:52Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Not so much “change their style”, but they are the ultimate example of selling out. They (Gene and Paul) shamelessly whore the name to anything and everything for a buck. Good business? Sure. Pathetic? Most definitely! It was never about making music, just making cash and getting laid. > > Yeah, I’m just jealous. 😃 (I’ve still got a sheet of KISS Army temporary tattoos from the KISS Alive II album!) KISS is an interesting case, though they did take off their makeup at a point when their careers were at a nadir, so in many ways, it was a smart move. THEN they convinced fans to see them WITH the makeup even though they knew what they looked like already! In many ways, Im sure Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley would be proud to call themselves “sellouts”. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/98 "2016-04-12T08:56:26Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > :: post snipped :: > > I saw Metallica on their first tour. I also play guitar. I used to play pretty much all speedy, heavy stuff. These days I play some of that but also some classical, mellow pretty pieces and jazz. > > Am I a sell out? If I am, why? > > I still love a cranked amp and a fast angry song. However I am not 15 anymore and also appreciate a much wider range of music. Why should it be any different for Metallica? Why do you think they evolved due to (only) ‘eternal sales pressure/greed’? > > Slee Your post makes me think of [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tSX4EexAe0&nohtml5=False). It was the last song on **Sacred Reich** ’s _The American Way_, a pretty good but rather run-of-the-mill 1990 metal album. My first reaction was utter puzzlement but it soon became my favourite song on the album (and the only one I remember nowadays). Perhaps not coincidentally, I started broadening my musical horizons just a few months later. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/99 "2016-04-12T16:10:25Z")
> [@Mr\_Radio](#): > > Like AC/DC? I remember Brian Johnson saying this to a reporter. I’m remembering Angus being asked his opinion of a critic’s statement that AC/DC had made 12 albums that all sound the same. Angus supposedly replied, “That bloody well pisses me off! We’ve made _fourteen_ albums that all sound the same!” > [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > But who was playing much besides guitars, drums and bass in the late 60s and 70s? I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think metal was rebelling against folk music and such. There were some hard rock and metal bands in the 70s using flutes and fiddles and such. I’m recalling my own teenage years (1980s) when, for a while, there was a bit of a cliché thing where a song would start off [with a scratchy record playing some traditional, “your grandparents’” music, followed by an obnoxious record scratch and the guitars, drums, and metal screaming would start](https://youtu.be/tTeXBTStek0). I’m not talking about simply incorporating “non-rock” instruments into the band. I’m talking about rock musicians who compose their rock from a “classical” perspective. It’s basically orchestral music turned into metal by the addition of electric guitars and drums, rather than vice-versa. Or, in the case of certain other metal genres, taking something “traditional” and rocking it up. These metal genres have had the side effect of making me envious of the European higher-education system, having discovered that many of these “metal” musicians have Master’s degrees in music. I particularly like the Dutch band, Epica: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tTeXBTStek0/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AG-AoAC8AGKAgwIABABGHIgQSg-MA8=&rs=AOn4CLBTqAhwK083zIq7NnOzsbJTSX6Wgw "Accept - Fast As A Shark") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTeXBTStek0) In that clip, they’re not performing one of their songs with an added orchestra and choir. They’re recreating the original recording with the original instrumentation. And the orchestra and choir parts were arranged by a member of the band, not some outside arranger. That’s how the song was composed in the first place. The whole album that song comes from is like that, and includes “orchestral” versions of every song (basically, the same tracks with the guitars and drums removed), and they still hold up. David Lee Roth once said, in some issue of _Hit Parader_ magazine, in the 1980s, “Heavy metal is just folk music played at high velocity.” ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782/100 "2016-04-12T17:47:45Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > By that definition, any artist that starts making “too” much money is selling out. What if an artist changes styles and it is a flop, commercially. Is that selling-out? Too many flops and the artist looses a record deal and fails. > > It sounds like selling-out has to do with an artist’s perceived success among their fans. The fans want them to be successful enough to keep producing the music the fan wants, but not so successful that they are rolling in money. Once that happens, they’ve sold-out, right? If you like an artist, go ahead and buy the music. If not, don’t buy it. But don’t not buy an artist’s music because they are perceived as a sell-out. I guess in my mind, it comes down to the band/artist’s internal creative process. If they’re evolving and changing in the service of an artistic vision and trying to just create what they think are great albums, that’s great. Good bands DO change like that. And if that evolution happens to coincide with commercial success, so much the better. But if at some point during that evolution, they realize that “hey… song X sold a lot of records. Let’s have our next album be more like song X because $$$”, then that’s selling out. That was also why I was saying that some pop acts are so reviled; because they never had that artistic vision to begin with; they were pre sold-out before they even released a thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-band-artist-was-the-biggest-sellout/751782.md?page=6)