# What bands could seriously be considered in the same ballpark as The Beatles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616 "2016-04-19T02:27:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/101 "2016-04-19T21:03:30Z")
another vote for: The Velvet Underground The Who I’d have to add: The Zombies - exquisite song-writing, on par with the Beatles IMO The MC5 & The Stooges - the grandfathers of Punk! the rest wouldn’t have happened without them… Another note regarding the Beach Boys and Pet Sounds, note that Pet Sounds predates Sgt. Peppers, and in fact, had a direct influence on the Beatles. From [this](http://albumlinernotes.com/Paul_McCartney_Comments.html)interview with Paul: > [@](#): > > YOU’VE TALKED ABOUT HOW PET SOUNDS INFLUENCED YOU. WHAT KIND OF IMPACT DID IT HAVE ON JOHN? > > PAUL: “I played it to John so much that it would be difficult for him to escape the influence. If records had a director within a band, I sort of directed Pepper. And my influence was basically the Pet Sounds album. John was influenced by it, perhaps not as much as me. It was certainly a record we all played – it was the record of the time, you know?” and a few more from [here](http://albumlinernotes.com/Pet_Sounds_-_Perspective.html) > [@](#): > > “No one is educated musically 'til they’ve heard Pet Sounds… It is a total, classic record that is unbeatable in many ways.” > > - Paul McCartney > > * * * > > “Without Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper wouldn’t have happened… Pepper was an attempt to equal Pet Sounds.” > > - George Martin ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/102 "2016-04-19T21:14:07Z")
In the Almighty Names of Dirk McQuickley and Barry Wom, I go with: > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > The Rutles, 'nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/103 "2016-04-19T21:37:23Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Well, in WASP land they never get any airplay. I don’t know one single song by The Ramones, although I have read about them. What can I say? I’m ignorant, but then so is probably just about everyone else. The Beatles were known world-wide. Maybe my suggested criteria should have included something to that effect. > > The Ramones are a niche punk group with little recognition outside certain circles. The Beatles influenced music and culture globally. I just read an article on the Ramones in the current issue of Rolling Stone. Like you, I also believed that I had heard of the band but didn’t know any of their songs but that turned out not to be true when I looked them up on Youtube. I bet you have heard their songs and just didn’t realize it. I was surprised how “poppy” they sound to me at least. I thought they were more…hardcore or something. [I Wanna Be Sedated](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLlLtSG7xe4) Other fun facts are that they weren’t related in the least and they didn’t even really like one another. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/104 "2016-04-19T21:37:50Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > The Zombies - exquisite song-writing, on par with the Beatles IMO I was waffling about whether to include them or not. _Odessey and Oracle_ is up there in my top albums of the 60s, but I’m not sure the rest of their output really quite measures up. At their best, though, I think they are definitely up there with the Beatles, the Kinks, and The Beach Boys, for songwriting in the 60s. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/105 "2016-04-19T21:55:38Z")
> [@Flare4roach](#): > > Eric Clapton. There is no living recording artist today who has had the same breadth of a career, remained popular and has been as influential as Slow Hand. Think about it. He was in the Yardbirds during the British Blues Boom and quit when they went pop, formed Cream and inspired Hendrix. Clapton could have quit right after “Sunshine of Your Love” and would have remained a guitar hero forever but he didn’t. He pushed forward. He felt the sting of rock criticism and was influenced by simplicity and depth of The Basement Tapes and quit the band. Hung around, played guitar for his buddy George Harrison’s masterpiece “All Things Must Pass” then joined up with Bonnie and Delaney as a backing guitarist for a tour. Decided to form his own band and named them Derek and the Dominoes. His playing enraptured Duane Allman…enough for Duane to take a part time leave of The Brothers and record with Eric. Imagine, 2 of the greatest blues guitarist to ever live just digging one another. Recorded “Layla and other Love Songs”. Again, he could have quit right then but nope, decided to move on. Recorded his own solo stuff (which by the way, the first couple of albums are outstanding!). Goes to London to record with Howlin’ Wolf and makes one of the greatest blues albums of all time “The London Sessions”. He just kept moving on afterwards. Granted, his later stuff was not quite as inspirational as his earlier stuff but then again The Beatles slowed down too. “Dig a Pony” is nothing like “Paperback Writer”. Anyway, I always felt Clapton kept reinventing himself and has remained a name when SO many others fell by the wayside. And none of it was as good as it would need to be to rate a mention here. An overpriced journeyman at best. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/106 "2016-04-19T21:56:45Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I was waffling about whether to include them or not. _Odessey and Oracle_ is up there in my top albums of the 60s, but I’m not sure the rest of their output really quite measures up. At their best, though, I think they are definitely up there with the Beatles, the Kinks, and The Beach Boys, for songwriting in the 60s. I love the Zombies too. But if you get down to the Zombies it’s just becoming a list of favorites basically. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/107 "2016-04-19T21:59:24Z")
Yeah, _Odessey and Oracle_ is a great record, but one great record does not a legacy make. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/108 "2016-04-19T22:00:14Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I just read an article on the Ramones in the current issue of Rolling Stone. Like you, I also believed that I had heard of the band but didn’t know any of their songs but that turned out not to be true when I looked them up on Youtube. I bet you have heard their songs and just didn’t realize it. I was surprised how “poppy” they sound to me at least. I thought they were more…hardcore or something. > > [I Wanna Be Sedated](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLlLtSG7xe4) > > Other fun facts are that they weren’t related in the least and they didn’t even really like one another. Teenage Lobotomy? Rock ‘n’ Roll High School? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/109 "2016-04-19T22:04:02Z")
Blitzkrieg Bop is probably the one most people have heard. It’s used at sporting events and on at least a couple of commercials. “Hey ho, let’s go!” ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/110 "2016-04-19T22:23:01Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > … > [I Wanna Be Sedated](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLlLtSG7xe4) > … OK. Yup. I know that. > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Teenage Lobotomy? Rock ‘n’ Roll High School? Nope, and nope. > [@Deeg](#): > > Blitzkrieg Bop is probably the one most people have heard. It’s used at sporting events and on at least a couple of commercials. > > “Hey ho, let’s go!” Yup, from sporting events, like you said. To put The Ramones in the same league as The Beatles is just silly ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/111 "2016-04-20T00:08:39Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > If I only know one song, then they aren’t very influential, are they? A better conclusion is that you just don’t know much about music. XTC was a fabulous band. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/112 "2016-04-20T00:28:49Z")
I’m not a big Beatles fan, but I acknowedge their popularity, talent, and influence. I like The Who, The Stones, and The Kinks better just among British bands. I certainly would put Dylan, the Beach Boys, and The Band in the same ballpark. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/113 "2016-04-20T00:37:19Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > A better conclusion is that you just don’t know much about music. > > XTC was a fabulous band. They never had one song to chart in the top 10 anywhere. To compare that to The Beatles is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/114 "2016-04-20T00:59:09Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > They never had one song to chart in the top 10 anywhere. To compare that to The Beatles is ridiculous. It depends on what we’re comparing. I stipulated quite carefully that I was talking about pop songwriting. They’re certainly comparable to and “in the same ballpark” as the Beatles on that level–I’m sure you can find music critics that would say they are second only to the Beatles in that regard. I’m not sure I would quite go that far (Elvis Costello has to be in that conversation, too), but it’s “ballpark.” Now, I clarified later that, no, based on the other criteria you mentioned (which I thought was optional–I thought this was meant to be more of a general conversational thread) they do not. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/115 "2016-04-20T01:07:55Z")
I like Flare4roach’s invocation of Eric Clapton – he evolved, great songwriter, great taste, I love his music, I wore out that circa-1990 retrospective CD box set through my 20s – BUT Clapton himself would admit he’s a follower, not a leader. Each phase of his career was INSPIRED by others, not INSPIRING others. First the great Delta and Chicago blues musicians like Robert Johnson and Willie Dixon; then The Band; etc. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/116 "2016-04-20T01:17:20Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I love the Zombies too. But if you get down to the Zombies it’s just becoming a list of favorites basically. I do agree. I’m surprised somewhat by the casual dismissal of The Ramones by some people here. While I don’t exactly listen to them very much, they had a lot of influence on worldwide, in my experience, and it’s not really all that I would call “niche” music either. It’s etched into the pop consciousness, and I would consider them one of the major bands that shaped the sound of rock music of the 70s onwards. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/117 "2016-04-20T01:38:53Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I do agree. I’m surprised somewhat by the casual dismissal of The Ramones by some people here. While I don’t exactly listen to them very much, they had a lot of influence on worldwide, in my experience, and it’s not really all that I would call “niche” music either. It’s etched into the pop consciousness, and I would consider them one of the major bands that shaped the sound of rock music of the 70s onwards. Given that this might be arguable, one could also argue that “same ballpark as the Beatles” means something a lot better, greater, more popular, or just different, whatever, than the Ramones. I would for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/118 "2016-04-20T01:49:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I do agree. I’m surprised somewhat by the casual dismissal of The Ramones by some people here. While I don’t exactly listen to them very much, they had a lot of influence on worldwide, in my experience, and it’s not really all that I would call “niche” music either. It’s etched into the pop consciousness, and I would consider them one of the major bands that shaped the sound of rock music of the 70s onwards. To be honest, I’d never known much about the Ramones at all. I’ve been Googleing around and listening on YouTube, and frankly I like what I hear. I grew up listening to rock music from Detroit (WRIF- Baby!) and they never played The Ramones. I don’t know why that would be, but the station really didn’t play punk. I’m guessing they influenced bands like The Clash and The Sex Pistols, and possibly even The Cars and Joe Jackson. (ETA: The Knack, of course!) Thanks for the suggestion. I appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/119 "2016-04-20T01:50:06Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > They never had one song to chart in the top 10 anywhere. To compare that to The Beatles is ridiculous. “Senses Working Overtime” hit #10 in the UK. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![littlespeedysuperbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@littlespeedysuperbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/littlespeedysuperbike)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/120 "2016-04-20T02:10:34Z")
Had enough people bought their records, NRBQ would clearly be in the conversation. 1. Songwriting - listen to “Ridin’ in My Car” followed by “C’mon Everybody” followed by “Only You” followed by “Always Safety First” - no common themes, no common sounds, clean writing of both lyrics, melodies, and harmonies. 2. Evolving sounds - yes - listen to “At Yankee Stadium”, “Tapdancing Bats”, and “Grooves in Orbit” back-to-back. It’s less that they changed what they were doing from album to album - it’s that each album’s sound was kaleidoscopic. 3. Wide Range of Influences - who else would play a harpsichord and a toy piano on the same album? 4. Growth and Innovation - The only one I can think of here is that their sound started like any other garage-rock band and then kept climbing the ladder of complexity. 5. Popularity - Not even remotely close! Decades on major labels, a dozen full-scale albums, and … one novelty hit with “Get that Gasoline Blues” during an oil crisis. They had the reputation of being “musicians’ musicians”, and it seems like their records only sold to other musicians! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616.md?page=7)