# What bands could seriously be considered in the same ballpark as The Beatles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616 "2016-04-19T02:27:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/121 "2016-04-20T02:13:32Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > ABBA was a tight package of singing, songwriting, and production. I don’t think they influence lots of people. > [@Nonsuch](#): > > I’d say bands like Scissor Sisters were influenced by Abba, but then there aren’t a lot of bands like Scissor Sisters. Also, Bucks Fizz; they were created specifically to be an ABBA-type act in order to compete in the exact same competition that helped spur ABBA’s career (Eurovision). Other than that one act, tho, I got nothin’. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/122 "2016-04-20T02:25:47Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Given that this might be arguable, one could also argue that “same ballpark as the Beatles” means something a lot better, greater, more popular, or just different, whatever, than the Ramones. I would for sure. Yeah, it depends on what ballpark we’re talking. I enjoy the Ramones, but they’re not really one of my favorite bands. But they were very much influential on much of the music I listen to. In terms of influence, I think an argument can be made to include them. In terms of all-around songwriting, they wrote catchy, short pop songs, but I don’t find much in their song structures to be terribly interesting or innovative. The Clash were far, far more interesting in this regard, but the Ramones kind of were the progenitors of the movement, or one of the most well-known progenitors, so it’s hard not to include them in the discussion as far as being a strong influence on a couple generations of pop music. That said, the Ramones themselves sound very influenced by early rock & roll, and that would include the Beatles. In the end, musically, I don’t find the Ramones to be in the same ballpark as the Beatles. Influentially, I would put them there, along with Black Sabbath, Velvet Underground, Kraftwerk, NWA, groups like that for their contributions to specific genres (and influences from those genres spilled out into a more mainstream audience and continue to shape the sound of current pop music.) They are one of the bands that are “root” influences for many contemporary bands. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/123 "2016-04-20T03:34:26Z")
In that other thread, I mentioned Klaatu, a band that, at the time, was thought by some to actually have been the Beatles having fun by publishing under another name. Pretty fun stuff, definitely clever enough to be Beatles-worthy. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/124 "2016-04-20T03:56:19Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > They never had one song to chart in the top 10 anywhere. To compare that to The Beatles is ridiculous. I’m not comparing them to the Beatles, just noting that you don’t know anything about XTC, despite your willingness to comment on their musical abilities and influence. I will also note that by your reasoning we should be comparing Britney Spears to the Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/125 "2016-04-20T04:01:04Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I can accept that answer. > I’ll put forward one of my own now: Frank Zappa. He was revolutionary, explorative and extremely talented. How many songs did Frank Zappa chart in the top ten anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/126 "2016-04-20T05:24:03Z")
For those who want to read more about the influence of The Ramones, here are some articles. What’s interesting is that their massive influence on the British punk scene can be traced to two shows. > **[Forty years of the Ramones: ‘They were the smartest dumb band you ever heard’](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/feb/02/forty-years-of-the-ramones-they-were-the-smartest-dumb-band-you-ever-heard)** > > The fights, the drugs, the sound, the look: 40 years after the Ramones recorded their debut album, bands from the Sex Pistols to Blondie to Talking Heads recall the Bowery punks’ explosive impact [http://louderthanwar.com/the-night-punk-went-overground-july-4th-1976-oral-account/](http://louderthanwar.com/the-night-punk-went-overground-july-4th-1976-oral-account/) > **[The Ramones play their first public gig at CBGB in downtown Manhattan](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-ramones-play-their-first-public-gig-at-cbgbs-in-downtown-manhattan)** > > Five years to the day after half a million rain-soaked hippies grooved and swayed to the psychedelic sounds of the Grateful Dead at Woodstock, four young men from Forest Hills, Queens, took to the stage of an East Village dive bar in jeans,... I believe it can be argued that The Ramones had as much impact on rock music as The Beatles. Part is this is because the ability of The Ramones was so low that they inspired lots of other bands to get started. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/127 "2016-04-20T05:54:06Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > For those who want to read more about the influence of The Ramones, here are some articles. What’s interesting is that their massive influence on the British punk scene can be traced to two shows. > > [Forty years of the Ramones: ‘They were the smartest dumb band you ever heard’ | The Ramones | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/feb/02/forty-years-of-the-ramones-they-were-the-smartest-dumb-band-you-ever-heard) > [http://louderthanwar.com/the-night-punk-went-overground-july-4th-1976-oral-account/](http://louderthanwar.com/the-night-punk-went-overground-july-4th-1976-oral-account/) > [The Ramones play their first public gig in Manhattan | March 30, 1974 | HISTORY](http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-ramones-play-their-first-public-gig-at-cbgbs-in-downtown-manhattan) > > I believe it can be argued that The Ramones had as much impact on rock music as The Beatles. Part is this is because the ability of The Ramones was so low that they inspired lots of other bands to get started. Beatles vs ramones is laughable. They were a concept art project. Most of all: They could have been someone else. The Beatles could not ever in Hell have been anyone else. Which is the definition of being as great as the beatles. “Influence” is for rock critical theorists. How about listeners? If I had a nickel for every time someone cited the Ramones on here who never actually saw them I would be rich. Just because people started thrashing away on guitars, and some haven’t stopped yet, it doesn’t argue for the unique luminescence of the Ramones. Plenty of music is not affected by them. But a lot of music that you wouldn’t think was influenced by the Beatles, like Um say the Ramones, actually was. You just don’t see it. The Ramones name is a Beatles reference. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/128 "2016-04-20T07:24:01Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Well, in WASP land they never get any airplay. I don’t know one single song by The Ramones, although I have read about them. What can I say? I’m ignorant, but then so is probably just about everyone else. The Beatles were known world-wide. Maybe my suggested criteria should have included something to that effect. > > The Ramones are a niche punk group with little recognition outside certain circles. The Beatles influenced music and culture globally. I thought the Ramones because Rolling Stone(?) named them second best band of all time behind the Fab Four. They certainly are a top 5 influential group, I just dont see them in the same universe as the Beatles in terms of songwriting, output, talent etc. Cant argue what a great live band. Dont see John-Paul-George-Ringo in Joey-Johnny-Dee Dee but they deserve to be called legends. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/129 "2016-04-20T07:29:11Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, Bowie would definitely make the grade. I think there might be an argument for Radiohead, as well. Love Bowie, but see him the same level as one of the four individual Beatles. Radiohead is awesome, but a modern day Pink Floyd: highly innovative, out there, with little influence on younger artists. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/130 "2016-04-20T07:31:19Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I’ll accept U2. Good pick. Queen is on the edge for me. If you haven’t watched their Live Aid performance, watch in on Youtube and you’ll be over the edge. Maybe the greatest live rock performance of all time. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/131 "2016-04-20T07:38:00Z")
One thing I cannot argue, one of the posters brought up cultural impact; there’s no denying the Beatles has the biggest cultural impact of anyone mentioned in this thread, and that’s huge. Elvis comes close; Id also suggest Bowie, Ramones, the Bee Gees, Michael Jackson, NWA, and MAYBE Nirvana had as close to any sort of cultural impact they did. And Nirvana’s was withering and short lived, at best. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/132 "2016-04-20T07:45:20Z")
One more band I saw listed a few times, and I HATE to be “I love this band BUT” guy is Black Sabbath—another band I adore but cant even put in the same sentence as the Beatles. A top 5 influential band, for sure, but a short life span, and frankly, not as creative as the Beatles by any stretch of the imagination. The progenitors of metal? All bow down. Id like to list one band as a HM: ELO. Many have said they are the band the most closely resembles the Beatles had they continued recording into the 70s, and when I listen to their music, I agree. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/133 "2016-04-20T07:55:23Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Beatles vs ramones is laughable. They were a concept art project. > > Most of all: They could have been someone else. The Beatles could not ever in Hell have been anyone else. Which is the definition of being as great as the beatles. “Influence” is for rock critical theorists. How about listeners? If I had a nickel for every time someone cited the Ramones on here who never actually saw them I would be rich. > > Just because people started thrashing away on guitars, and some haven’t stopped yet, it doesn’t argue for the unique luminescence of the Ramones. Plenty of music is not affected by them. But a lot of music that you wouldn’t think was influenced by the Beatles, like Um say the Ramones, actually was. You just don’t see it. The Ramones name is a Beatles reference. I might be too young for this, but I think what made the Ramones so revered is they were one of the first bands to come out on stage and play songs with three cords; in other words, you didn’t need to be that talented to be a rock n roll star, and obviously that appealed to millions of rock n roll wannabes who then started bands of their own. I think what killed punk is that bands including the Ramones quickly got up to speed on how to be better musicians and found new musical influences, and got away from what the spirit of punk was in the first place, and by the end of the 70s punk turned into “new wave” while existing punk bands like the Ramones turned into jokes. Compare the Clash’s “Rock the Casbah” to their earlier works and you’ll see what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/134 "2016-04-20T08:13:25Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > ABBA always struck me as fluff. Danceable, I guess, but not serious. Well, personally, I rank them pretty high in terms of songwriting. Yes, it’s pop but extremely well-made, with some of the most ear-catching melodies I’ve ever heard (an art in itself) and there’s often a little something to catch a musician’s attention like a nice modulation, lush orchestration or a cool bass lick. They definitely fit the songwriting and popularity (they were absolutely huge in the 70s) criteria. Growth? Not so much but they did evolve, especially towards the end when the relationships between them started falling apart. Take _The Day Before You Came_. That’s definitely not the same sound-world as, say, _Dancing Queen_. Pretty long (over 6:00), a pared-down melody, synthetic sounds, a rather bleak atmosphere and those haunting, diminished chords towards the end, with the oboe melody on top and Frida’s subtle vocalizing in the background. I love it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/135 "2016-04-20T08:25:51Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > If you haven’t watched their Live Aid performance, watch in on Youtube and you’ll be over the edge. Maybe the greatest live rock performance of all time. Yeah, they blew Zep off the stage, especially Freddie. Of course, it didn’t help that Page was hammered… :eek: Sadly, that was the one and only time I ever saw Zep (or what was left of them), and it was on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/136 "2016-04-20T08:29:04Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > A better conclusion is that you just don’t know much about music. > > XTC was a fabulous band. I’d never heard of them before this thread and a visit to YouTube backed up the fact I’d never heard any of their songs before either. I see a lot of people mentioning The Ramones, but the only one of their songs I’ve ever heard was “I Want To Be Sedated” and I didn’t know it was by them. I’m not saying there aren’t some very good bands being suggested here, but I would suggest a few of the posters _might_ be tending a wee bit towards hipsterism when it comes to music suggestions. When making comparisons to The Beatles, I’d suggest. it’s not really fair to be mentioning bands which aren’t particularly well known to a general, non-music enthusiast audience. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/137 "2016-04-20T08:48:13Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > While I don’t exactly listen to them very much, they had a lot of influence on worldwide, I can safely say that for South Africa, at least, the Ramones had near-zero direct influence on alt music. I wouldn’t say they were _completely_ unknown, and certainly bands \*they influenced \* were big here, but Ramones songs were just _never_ played, on radio or in punk clubs. Similarly, Rush is not a thing here in precisely their usual demographic - lots of huge PF and Tull fans here. A bit less ELP, Yes, King Crimson, prog-era Genesis, etc, but still well-known. Rush just … isn’t known. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/138 "2016-04-20T08:51:45Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Black Sabbath[…] a short life span You’re aware that Sabbath put out a new album with original members _in 2013_, right? ---
**Author:** ![Flare4roach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7cd45c/32.png) [@Flare4roach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flare4roach)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/139 "2016-04-20T09:12:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You’re aware that Sabbath put out a new album with original members _in 2013_, right? Not exactly. Bill Ward does not play drums on 13. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616/140 "2016-04-20T10:10:14Z")
> [@Flare4roach](#): > > Not exactly. Bill Ward does not play drums on 13. I very deliberately said “with original members” not “with _all_ original members”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-bands-could-seriously-be-considered-in-the-same-ballpark-as-the-beatles/752616.md?page=8)