# What battle did the British empire fight in California? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 24, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035 "2025-03-24T14:17:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/1 "2025-03-24T14:17:30Z")
So this [map](https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/485726369_1109129447683166_818016103575504601_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=3okfBh6SuXEQ7kNvgG4vugQ&_nc_oc=Adn8PoQXo4unO_YvXb1gFHxAlSi-Drox99J6gtlMwTkYmHd6Zawbza-2eVk9yv2arh4&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&_nc_gid=QDaX62krxO0_G32924Me4A&oh=00_AYFnDOzA5IWYpbAAB4gklBsQ7rqBni1ZJWOLz3Y8DoCGzQ&oe=67E3F641) came up on my FB feed. It purports to be a map of all the battles fought by the main European empires in their history. I know it’s dumb click bait but still it’s been bugging me. What is that red dot doing in California? What could possibly be described as a battle fought by the British empire on the west coast of modern day America? Could it be one of Francis Drake’s skirmishes? Again, it’s dumb click bait not rigorously researched history (referring to it as “United Kingdom” when they didn’t exist until well after most of those battles were fought shows that), but it’s bugging me 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/2 "2025-03-24T15:48:15Z")
Not sure about the one in modern California, but the one north of there in the Vancouver area is likely the Nootka Crisis: > **[Nootka Crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootka_Crisis)** > > The Nootka Crisis, also known as the Spanish Armament, was an international incident and political dispute between the Nuu-chah-nulth Nation, Spain, the Kingdom of Great Britain, and the fledgling United States of America triggered by a series of events revolving around sovereignty claims and rights of navigation and trade. It took place during the summer of 1789 at the Spanish outpost Santa Cruz de Nuca, in Nootka Sound on Vancouver Island in present-day British Columbia, Canada. The comma The c... ---
**Author:** ![Limmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Limmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Limmin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/3 "2025-03-24T16:25:16Z")
Nootka Sound is way further north than that dot. OTOH the dot appears to be close to San Francisco bay, but web searches haven’t revealed any British battles there. Sir Francis Drake, for whom Drake’s Bay was somehow named, fought elsewhere in the Pacific. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/4 "2025-03-24T16:42:15Z")
Were there any naval conflicts involving California in the War of 1812 (although California was under Spanish control then)? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/5 "2025-03-24T16:49:39Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I know it’s dumb click bait but still it’s been bugging me. You surely understand that click bait is rarely published by the truly knowledgeable. Whatever factoids are behind that, there’s a real chance it’s chock-full of mythology, misattribution, geographic mislocation, and maybe even AI hallucination (our 21st Century addition to urban legend). ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/6 "2025-03-24T17:07:15Z")
While we are at it, what battle does the dot off Vancouver Island represent? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/7 "2025-03-24T17:28:59Z")
The only thing I can find is related to [Fort Ross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ross,_California), a Russian settlement north of San Francisco, and north of Drakes Bay: _Upon his arrival in Alta California in 1839, [John Sutter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sutter) was attracted to the land near the [Sacramento River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_River). To obtain the land and permission to settle in the territory, he went to the capital at [Monterey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey,_California) and requested a grant from [Governor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pre-statehood_governors_of_California) [Juan Bautista Alvarado](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Bautista_Alvarado). Alvarado saw Sutter’s plan of establishing a colony in the [Central Valley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Valley_(California)) as useful in “buttressing the frontier which he was trying to maintain against Indians, Russians, Americans and British.”_ Buttressing territory against the British hardly seems like a “battle” tho. > [@Limmin](#): > > Sir Francis Drake, for whom Drake’s Bay was somehow named, fought elsewhere in the Pacific. Drake “supposedly” landed at Drakes Bay at one point. Sir Francis Drake Blvd, which runs thru Marin County, is there as well. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/8 "2025-03-24T17:36:14Z")
Drake’s relations with the California Indians were relatively peaceful and Drake was staying far enough North to avoid the Spanish he pissed off during his voyage up the west coast of the Americas. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/9 "2025-03-24T17:36:57Z")
My guess would be something during the Seven Years’ War (1756-1763), which the colonial powers also fought in their overseas possessions. Britain and Spain were on opposing sides in that one. I can’t name such a fight taking place in California, but at least some sort of skirmish is not unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/10 "2025-03-24T17:39:53Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > I can’t name such a fight taking place in California, but at least some sort of skirmish is not unlikely I’ve never heard of the British being involved in North America anywhere other than the east coast. Wikipedia doesn’t mention anything either. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/11 "2025-03-24T18:31:45Z")
Zooming in on the low-res image, the dot in BC is gray, so it’s a victim of JPEG, and I’m not certain if it’s showing UK, France, or some other country. I also can’t tell exactly where the CA dot is, but roughly where Ft. Ross is. A minor conflict over fur rights, if anything. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/12 "2025-03-24T18:39:55Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > My guess would be something during the Seven Years’ War (1756-1763) That was before even Cook made it to the west coast of North America. Except for some whalers perhaps, there is practically zero British presence there between 1579 and 1778. In fact, the Spanish didn’t even build their first mission in California until after the Seven Years War. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/13 "2025-03-24T19:40:06Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > buttressing the frontier which he was trying to maintain against Indians, Russians, Americans and British Yeah though according to everything l read this seems to be a hypothetical threat not an actual force that needed defending against, so hard to describe as a battle in even the loosest sense.of the word ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/14 "2025-03-24T19:41:25Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Not sure about the one in modern California, but the one north of there in the Vancouver area is likely the Nootka Crisis I was thinking it could be the san Juan Islands confrontation (aka the Pig War) > **[Pig War (1859)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War_(1859))** > >  United States >  United Kingdom > Current Border Disputes > The Pig War was a confrontation in 1859 between the United States and the United Kingdom over the British–U.S. border in the San Juan Islands, between Vancouver Island (present-day Canada) and the Washington Territory (present-day State of Washington). The Pig War, so called because it was triggered by the shooting of a pig, is also called the Pig Episode, the Pig and Potato War, the San Juan Boundary Dispute, and the Northwestern Boundary... ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/15 "2025-03-24T20:16:07Z")
> [@Limmin](#): > > Nootka Sound is way further north than that dot. OTOH the dot appears to be close to San Francisco bay, but web searches haven’t revealed any British battles there. I said I was talking about the dot in the Vancouver area. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/16 "2025-03-24T21:09:56Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > What is that red dot doing in California? Probably a mistake involving three British warships which visited Monterey harbor in 1846. Commodore John Sloat captured Monterey before the warships received orders to do anything. > **[Ephraim D. Adams • English Interest in the Annexation of California —...](https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Journals/AHR/14/4/English_Interest_in_the_Annexation_of_California*.html)** > > The UK did not attempt to possess themselves of California. Part of a large American history site: 6200 webpages, 90 books, 38,000 pages of print. ---
**Author:** ![sunacres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/17 "2025-03-24T21:10:18Z")
Could it have been related to the establishment of Astoria at the mouth of the Columbia river? I seem to recall that the Jefferson/Astor party had to wrestle with both British and Russian fur traders, all trying to gain control of the market. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/18 "2025-03-24T21:26:21Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Probably a mistake involving three British warships which visited Monterey harbor in 1846. Commodore John Sloat captured Monterey before the warships received orders to do anything That makes sense. They were technically present during the battle of Monterey (not that it was much of a battle), so I guess that counts? ---
**Author:** ![Limmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Limmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Limmin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/19 "2025-03-24T21:37:30Z")
Agreed, the dot near the San Juans has got to be the Pig War! I used to visit both American and British camps on San Juan island often. Super nice place to visit. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035/20 "2025-03-24T22:00:06Z")
Another vote for the Pig War. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-battle-did-the-british-empire-fight-in-california/1016035.md?page=2)