# What book or movie has the 'badguys' winning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 24, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755 "2004-05-24T05:52:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/21 "2004-05-24T11:56:18Z")
_One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest_ – one good guy “wins”, but one definitely loses. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/22 "2004-05-24T11:58:13Z")
Body Heat In Silence of the Lambs an escaped Hannibal Lecter is seen chasing down his latest victim at the movie’s end. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/23 "2004-05-24T11:58:27Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > _The Last Seduction_ I can never do anything right once I start thinking about Linda Fiorentino 😉 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/24 "2004-05-24T12:00:46Z")
Lots of movies come to mind. 1. **The Usual Suspects** : Verbal Kint turns out to be the mastermind behind all the crimes committed, and he gets away scot-free. 2. **The Silence of the Lambs** : Hannibal Lecter gets away, to live the good life overseas. 3. **The Vanishing** : the European version, that is, not the lame Kiefer Sutherland remake. The protagonist is buried alive, and the killer gets away. 4. Pretty much ever horror movie of the last 25 years; Freddie Krueger, Jason, Michael Myers, Leatherface, et al. HAVE to stay alive and get away, so there can be dozens of sequels. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/25 "2004-05-24T12:21:37Z")
> [@Silentgoldfish](#): > > … has anyone said _1984_ yet? Ah, they’re 1984-style Death Rays! 😃 I’d go with **Rosemary’s Baby**. The coven of bad devil worshippers wins in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/26 "2004-05-24T12:46:27Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Ah, they’re 1984-style Death Rays! 😃 > > I’d go with **Rosemary’s Baby**. The coven of bad devil worshippers wins in the end. On which note, I’ll add The Haunting (the real one). Hill House mosr definitely gets what it wants. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/27 "2004-05-24T12:50:58Z")
I don’t recall for certain, but didn’t The Stepford Wives end up with the heroine roboticized? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/28 "2004-05-24T13:00:37Z")
The series finale of _Blake’s Seven_ famously ended with all the good guys being gunned down by the faceless jackbooted stormtroopers of the totalitarian regime. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/29 "2004-05-24T13:01:27Z")
Yes. And “The Boys from Brazil” ends with the boys winning. It seems to be a theme with Ira Levin to have the bad guys win. Of course, in his first book “A Kiss Before Dying” the bad guy didn’t win, though he came damn close. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/30 "2004-05-24T13:09:27Z")
_The Player_ with Tim Robbins ends with the title character pretty much getting everything he wants in life despite his sociopathic, immoral behavior and lack of integrity. Ditto _The Grifters_, though there really aren’t any “good guys” in that movie. In _Angel Heart_, the Devil wins. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/31 "2004-05-24T13:39:13Z")
I’d have to disagree about _Rocky_ – that is, it wasn’t really a loss for the protagonist. His goal was to be the first fighter to go fifteen rounds with Apollo Creed; it was the first time Creed won by decision instead of KO. For a mediocre club fighter like Rocky to rise to that level was a real triumph. I never read the book _Harvest Home_, but in the miniseries “The Dark Secret of Harvest Home” the hero not only fails to prevent the weird townsfolk from committing human sacrifice, but has to watch his wife willingly have sex with another man as a fertility ritual, then has his eyes, tongue and hands removed and has to live that way while his wife carries the other guy’s baby in her womb. Happy days. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/32 "2004-05-24T14:02:46Z")
all this mention of Orwell and noone mentioned Animal Farm. For shame! ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/33 "2004-05-24T14:22:34Z")
Did anyone say “Brave New World” yet? ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/34 "2004-05-24T14:33:11Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > **American Beauty** probably ends up with the daughter and boyfriend going to jail and the Marine guy getting away with it. I think that’s sheer speculation on your part. There’s nothing in the movie that implies that outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/35 "2004-05-24T14:39:17Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Yes. And “The Boys from Brazil” ends with the boys winning. Yeah, but that’s questionable. I mean, the boys don’t get killed, but they’re innocent, in spite of their genetics. That was what Lawrence Olivier’s character came to realize, and why he wouldn’t give up their names to (Steve Gutenberg’s character? Whoever played the young radical Nazi hunter). And Mengele is dead, so without him masterminding the plan, it’s likely they’ll just grow up to be normal people and not lead the Fourth Reich. ---
**Author:** ![Richard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Richard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/36 "2004-05-24T14:52:25Z")
“All the King’s Men”. I was depressed for a long time after we read this book in college, mainly because it was mostly true, or at least that was what I understood. Of course, the bad guy (Huey Long under some other name) is dead at the end, but the good guy is immediately killed, and the bad guy continues to be lauded as a hero. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/37 "2004-05-24T14:59:15Z")
**Schindler’s List** ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/38 "2004-05-24T15:13:28Z")
**A Clockwork Orange** : In the movie it is assumed that Alex will go back to his old self. “I was cured all right.” The same holds true for the book, if you excuse the 21st chapter (where Alex is older and gives up his life of crime because it simply bores him now). ---
**Author:** ![TwoTrouts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@TwoTrouts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoTrouts)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/39 "2004-05-24T15:18:15Z")
Not a book or a movie, but the original stage version of the musical. Little Shops of Horrors ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755/40 "2004-05-24T15:42:26Z")
> [@Fiver](#): > > I think that’s sheer speculation on your part. There’s nothing in the movie that implies that outcome. I haven’t seen American Beauty in over a year, but on and first and second viewings I was left with a very strong impression that the kids would be framed with Lester’s murder. The scenes where girl is being filmed bitching about her dad and the boy offering to kill him are telling. I’m forgeting other scenes, but remember that the kids ran away from home the night of the murder too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-book-or-movie-has-the-badguys-winning/246755.md?page=3)