# What can be done about right-wing propaganda? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148 "2017-05-21T16:27:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/41 "2017-05-22T17:59:35Z")
> [@Walton\_Firm](#): > > Admittedly however, when looking up the above examples I also came across some people expressing a dislike for the term, and a general sort-of-consensus that “American” is the best choice, so I’ll keep that in mind for the future. Thank you for your consideration. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/42 "2017-05-22T18:30:24Z")
> [@ataraxy22](#): > > Shame your friends and family that are on the to it. Make their hatred a social liability. If they’re not already being shamed, then they probably outnumber you and your non-Fox-watching ilk. This means that attempting to shame them will just expose you as their opposition, resulting in your own socialness being liabilitized. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/43 "2017-05-22T18:35:09Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Well I dunno what else you can take away from this story. He’s falling in line just like everyone else on FOX News to obfuscate and deny this story. I’ve generally ignored TV news since the election, but I’m familiar with most players. This is Krauthammer on Fox with Tucker Carlson discussing the Comey incident. YMMV but he sounds like the same stodgy wonk he’s always been, and it seems like a reasonable analysis. Years ago I read the autobiography of CBS journalist Lesley Stahl. She started her book, and thus her life story, upon the breaking of the Watergate scandal. That's worth keeping in mind here and at any other time of breathless reporting - they live for this stuff. Careers are launched, reputations are built, awards are given. The rest of us, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/44 "2017-05-22T18:35:37Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > … non-Fox-watching ilk. This is an awesome phrase. I think it’ll be my default descriptor for Dopers generally from here on out. Wife: “What are you doing on your phone?” Me: “Arguing with the non-Fox-watching ilk.” (which actually does sound a bit better than “arguing with Dopers”) ---
**Author:** ![Walton\_Firm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@Walton\_Firm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walton_Firm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/45 "2017-05-22T19:07:36Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > One thing it perhaps misses in its analysis: why _is_ academia, journalism, and the like so horribly biased against conservatives? [QUOTE=Velocity] My WAG as someone who is neither an academic nor a journalist (in the strict sense of the terms): Many institutions have a way of being self-reinforcing. It’s a positive-loop chicken and egg situation; if academic and journalism begin to turn liberal, then they will only become more liberal, because conservatives will find it harder and harder to gain entry. [/QUOTE] Please allow me to speculate on an alternative, or perhaps complementary, hypothesis from an interested outsider (when the US sneezes, _everybody_ catches a cold, so those of us living elsewhere are often as interested in your politics as we are in our own – plus, they’re often more entertaining, especially recently). Whatever else the differences between the two major parties may be, it appears that the Democrats have their stronghold in the larger cities while the Republicans mostly represent the rural areas. Academia and journalism (at least journalists working at large national media corporations such as CNN, rather than the town fishwrap) are pretty much exclusively city-based. This would also match up with **ganthet** ’s objection to **Spoons** ’ point about the kind of experiences that journalists get exposed to: police officers get to observe the seedy underbelly of life much like journalists do, but they are more evenly spread out across the country, so you would expect them to be more conservative on average even if city police are still more liberal than rural town police. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/46 "2017-05-22T19:10:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is an awesome phrase. I think it’ll be my default descriptor for Dopers generally from here on out. > > Wife: “What are you doing on your phone?” > > Me: “Arguing with the non-Fox-watching ilk.” (which actually does sound a bit better than “arguing with Dopers”) Not to dissuade you from sharing the light of my brilliant verbiage, but the term ‘ilk’ requires you to have referred to another person or thing of that class immediately prior. It’s kind of weird that way. (The Dope is the one place on the internet where pedantic definition-mongering won’t get me pilloried, right? Right? Maybe I should hide anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/47 "2017-05-22T19:17:26Z")
> [@Walton\_Firm](#): > > This would also match up with **ganthet** ’s objection to **Spoons** ’ point about the kind of experiences that journalists get exposed to: police officers get to observe the seedy underbelly of life much like journalists do, but they are more evenly spread out across the country, so you would expect them to be more conservative on average even if city police are still more liberal than rural town police. Even in cities police are in a very different position from reporters, and I can easily see how they’d be less inclined to develop sympathy. Generally speaking, when they interact with the underclass they’re expecting conflict, and/or being actively shot at. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/48 "2017-05-22T20:05:57Z")
> [@Walton\_Firm](#): > > Somewhere, on a more conservative-leaning message board, somebody right now is writing a post titled “ **what can be done about left-wing propaganda?** ” that is almost identical to yours, except that it complains about how half of the population is being brainwashed by left-wing propaganda outlets such as CNN (and that’s one of the ones which at least maintains a _veneer_ of respectability some of the time!). > > That post from your evil twin then says the exact same thing as you: > … except that it has the opposite opinion about which half is which. > > The post from mirror-you ends by saying: > > And the people on that conservative message board read this and nod their head, because according to all the evidence available to them, the post is saying things that are obviously true, just as all the things you’re saying are obviously true based on the things you’ve learned from CNN etc. Ah, the old “both sides do it” argument. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/49 "2017-05-22T20:12:54Z")
Bottom line, there’s nothing you can do about it. People will believe what they want to believe, even in the face of absolute facts. They’ll either ignore them or spin them in some way that they fit in with their beliefs. Only life-changing experiences have any chance of altering those beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/50 "2017-05-22T20:25:46Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Even in cities police are in a very different position from reporters, and I can easily see how they’d be less inclined to develop sympathy. Generally speaking, when they interact with the underclass they’re expecting conflict, and/or being actively shot at. Well, it is worth noting that a fundamental identity of a journalist is to hold power accountable. Whereas, a fundamental identity of a police officer is to hold power. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/51 "2017-05-22T22:32:37Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Which is cute, in the same way such a play is cute coming from a young earth creationist, or a geo-centrist, or a flat earther. :rolleyes: Hence why, in my starting post, I brought up a very recent and very _obvious_ example of how absurd this is - the right-wing news’s coverage of the last few days. > > This is an interesting article, with an interesting perspective. It makes some important points. One thing it perhaps misses in its analysis: why _is_ academia, journalism, and the like so horribly biased against conservatives? Post snipped. In academia, the answer to why there aren’t many conservatives is pretty straightforward. The professors don’t want to hire them. [Link](http://www.baylorpress.com/Book/20/235/Compromising_Scholarship.html). [Linky](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/opinion/sunday/a-confession-of-liberal-intolerance.html). From the second link: > [@](#): > > Yancey, the black sociologist, who now teaches at the University of North Texas, conducted a survey in which up to 30 percent of academics said that they would be less likely to support a job seeker if they knew that the person was a Republican. Note, in the actual study it states that the discrimination against conservatives is likely to be understated because people don’t want to admit to discriminating. > [@](#): > > We believe it even more plausible that our measures underestimate willingness to discriminate, because respondents were asked directly and because presumably there is a strong norm against discrimination among psychologists. Consistent with this, perceived willingness to discriminate was even stronger when people were asked about the behavior of their peers—an indirect measure that bypasses some social desirability concerns [Link](http://yoelinbar.net/papers/political_diversity.pdf). What is also interesting is that the percentage of conservative/Republican college professors changed dramatically depending on the area of study. For example, according to one study Economics is 4.5 to 1 liberal to conservative while Journalism is 20 to 1. Psychology is 17 to 1. Law is 8 to 1. History is 33 to 1. [Link](https://econjwatch.org/articles/faculty-voter-registration-in-economics-history-journalism-communications-law-and-psychology). This matches up with surveys done by discipline that show humanities professors are ~80% liberal, social science are 75% liberal while engineering professors are ~50%. [Linky](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_beliefs_of_academics#cite_note-Kurtz-2). Why do you think there is a disparity between engineering and the humanities? I have a guess but wonder how you explain this discrepancy. Slee ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/52 "2017-05-22T22:41:25Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Even in cities police are in a very different position from reporters, and I can easily see how they’d be less inclined to develop sympathy. Generally speaking, when they interact with the underclass they’re expecting conflict, and/or being actively shot at. Small quibble: The overwhelming majority of LEOs are never shot at, not even a single time, during their _entire_ law enforcement career. I suspect you’re right though that most of them are “expecting conflict” when interacting with their typical customers. [FBI data](https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2015/tables/table_75_leos_asltd_type_of_weapon_and_percent_injured_2006-2015.xls) on firearm assaults on LEO show ~2,000 per year. They collect data on more agencies employing more than half a million LEOs. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/53 "2017-05-23T01:27:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is an awesome phrase. I think it’ll be my default descriptor for Dopers generally from here on out. > > Wife: “What are you doing on your phone?” > > Me: “Arguing with the non-Fox-watching ilk.” (which actually does sound a bit better than “arguing with Dopers”) Well, you are watching a network that is losing viewers. So you might as well say “arguing with most Americans” > **[As Trump unravels, so do Fox’s ratings](https://www.mediamatters.org/sean-hannity/trump-unravels-so-do-foxs-ratings)** > [@](#): > > On Thursday, Fox News came in last place among the three cable news channels among viewers between the ages of 25 and 54. And it wasn’t a fluke. > > In a development that has sparked murmurs throughout the cable news business, Fox News in recent weeks has regularly finished in last place among advertising-friendly viewers between the ages of 25 and 54, or “demo” viewers, as they’re known in the industry. (In terms of total viewers, Fox News does better, thanks to its large stable of viewers over the age of 54.) > > “For first time this century, they aren’t in first place,” noted MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough last week. “In fact, for the first time this century, they are in third place.” Added CNN’s Brian Stelter, “This is an extraordinary moment in the cable news race.” > > And yes, a lot of this is President Donald Trump’s fault. This comment regarding the ratings from Adweek comparing the ratings of FOX to other cable networks nails what is going on in recent days. > **[Scoreboard: Friday, May 19](https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/scoreboard-friday-may-19/)** > > MSNBC finished No. 1 in prime time, with Rachel Maddow leading the charge once again. CNN won the demo across total day. Fox News won total day viewers. [QUOTE=David Azevedo] … it might help if Fox were actually reporting the news. But when you have things like last Friday at 8ET when CNN and MSNBC led with the two big news stories of the day while Tucker Carlson led with something about media bias against Trump…what do they THINK is going to happen? Even most conservatives want the news. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/54 "2017-05-23T02:38:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is an awesome phrase. I think it’ll be my default descriptor for Dopers generally from here on out. > > Wife: “What are you doing on your phone?” > > Me: “Arguing with the non-Fox-watching ilk.” (which actually does sound a bit better than “arguing with Dopers”) Wife: “Great. Now he’s fighting with the deer.” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/55 "2017-05-23T03:50:52Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Post snipped. > > In academia, the answer to why there aren’t many conservatives is pretty straightforward. The professors don’t want to hire them. > > [Link](http://www.baylorpress.com/Book/20/235/Compromising_Scholarship.html). > > [Linky](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/opinion/sunday/a-confession-of-liberal-intolerance.html). > > From the second link: > > Note, in the actual study it states that the discrimination against conservatives is likely to be understated because people don’t want to admit to discriminating. > [Link](http://yoelinbar.net/papers/political_diversity.pdf). Now here’s a question: _why is that_? Surely it couldn’t be that in order to self-identify as “conservative” in the USA these days, you have to admit that you are backing a party with a hardline stance that involves denying the current scientific understanding on climate change, homosexuality, criminal justice reform, addiction, and more? The article namedrops Francis Collins, but the fact is that Francis Collins is not your average Evangelical Christian, and anthropology and biology departments have every reason to be wary of evangelicals - they’re considerably more likely to bring their religious baggage to the table, which is not helpful. > [@](#): > > Why do you think there is a disparity between engineering and the humanities? I have a guess but wonder how you explain this discrepancy. Because the republican position on many humanities is intellectually bankrupt and/or borderline nuts, and in engineering there is very little that is in dispute in such a partisan manner. If republicans were as wrong on engineering as they were on climatology, there would be a lot more exploding cars. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/56 "2017-05-23T15:53:37Z")
I didn’t realize the Republican Party had a position on “many humanities”. Since you claimed the positions are intellectually bankrupt and borderline nuts, perhaps you could educate me on what the positions are and where and how they differ from the Democratic Party’s positions. Of course Republican rhetoric threatens to cut government funding to certain programs that benefit organizations of higher education, but I’m sure that has nothing to do with why they won’t hire Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/57 "2017-05-23T20:03:53Z")
Propaganda is found everywhere. But to curb right-wing propaganda and it being fueled, fair coverage by the majority of the press, which slants left would have to happen! Politics has hit a new low lately, with the press trumpeting stories with grandiose headlines, with no real proof. Words like allegedly or according to sources are often found. Enough already! 100’s of people meet with the Russians, and for a spin, don;t you think China who was very pro-Clinton and Anti-Trump, a nation who hacked the USA far worse than the Russians tried to do something to tilt the election the way they wanted to? It makes sense, but no foreign side could tamper with the actual vote, I think. I also see states going rogue with judge shopping. When the Democrats win back the Presidency, that person can expect the same in return. It’s just not good for the nation. I wish it would stop. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/58 "2017-05-24T03:48:29Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Propaganda is found everywhere. But to curb right-wing propaganda and it being fueled, fair coverage by the majority of the press, which slants left would have to happen! The vast majority of the world’s press is apparently biased against Trump then, since most are reporting the actual news of Comey being fired and the claim he is making that Trump told him to drop an investigation. And that Trump told Israeli secrets to the Russians. It should be noted that when these events happened, on FOX they made a big deal about media spin, and how this was all conjecture from dubious sources etc, just as you are. But then Trump confirmed both of these things in interviews and tweets. So now they turn their anger on to the leakers. Damn those leakers! ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148/59 "2017-05-24T04:35:05Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Propaganda is found everywhere. But to curb right-wing propaganda and it being fueled, fair coverage by the majority of the press, which slants left would have to happen! > > Politics has hit a new low lately, with the press trumpeting stories with grandiose headlines, with no real proof. Words like allegedly or according to sources are often found. Enough already! Do you understand the concept of an anonymous source? It’s not just “The Washington Post gets a call from a random guy who claims to be in the Trump white house and knows something”. Rather, it’s more often “The Washington Post gets a call from a source within the Trump white house who has important information for them that they feel needs to get out to the public, under the condition that they remain unnamed. Then, the Washington Post makes sure this person is who they say they are, tries to verify any information they receive, then publishes their information, listing it as an anonymous source. If a person within the administration is serious about their leaks, a similar and convergent process will generally take place at other noteworthy news sources, such as the New York Times and CNN.” Bit of a difference, really. Now, sure, if you think the Washington Post is just _making shit up_ when it publishes these stories, then that’s a problem. But I don’t. And given the paper’s track record, and given that these stories are generally corroborated by numerous other outlets who independently go out and verify the anonymous source, I find this an utterly unreasonable assumption. Especially given that recently, Trump has confirmed quite a few of these allegations - such as the ones claiming that he shared top-secret intel from Israel with Russia. > [@](#): > > 100’s of people meet with the Russians, and for a spin, don;t you think China who was very pro-Clinton and Anti-Trump, a nation who hacked the USA far worse than the Russians tried to do something to tilt the election the way they wanted to? I think if there was _evidence_ of this, in the same way there’s strong evidence that the DNC hack came from Russia (the kind of evidence that leads to a complete consensus within the intelligence community), then you might have a case. Until then, this is conspiracy theorizing. > [@](#): > > When the Democrats win back the Presidency, that person can expect the same in return. It’s just not good for the nation. > > I wish it would stop. Again, you’re conflating propaganda (“Did Clinton hire out a hit on a DNC staffter?!”) with actual news (“Sources within Trump camp claim that President shared top-secret information with Russia”). The difference will be that when the democrats win back the white house, the mainstream media will report on the news much as it is now - covering real scandals and real policy details - while the right-wing media will swap from running cover for the president and trying to distract from his scandals to hurriedly repeating every bizarre, bullshit conspiracy theory against them in the hopes that something, _anything_ sticks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-be-done-about-right-wing-propaganda/787148.md?page=2)