# What can hostage takers in the US actually get from negotiations? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 14, 2016, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-hostage-takers-in-the-us-actually-get-from-negotiations/771951 "2016-11-14T12:13:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-hostage-takers-in-the-us-actually-get-from-negotiations/771951/21 "2016-11-17T13:15:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Oh, I know that, I just wanted to know if there was ever a point in talking to the negotiator or if he’s just there to trick the hostage taker. Despite having never done it myself, I’m sure it’s not easy to live with knowing you’ve killed someone, even if that’s your job. That’s probably why many combat veterans reluctance to talk about what they did in action. I’m sure it’s less paperwork for the PD to fill out a successful hostage negotiation/surrender than for a police shooting, coupled with the potential loss of team members from stress/burnout. The cost of a bullet is much less than the cost of trial & incarceration but we’re not civilized if we think that way. I’m thinking quick & peaceful surrender might only get you, say, 20 years instead of 25. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-hostage-takers-in-the-us-actually-get-from-negotiations/771951/22 "2016-11-17T16:38:40Z")
I dunno. How important are the hostages? The US will make any deals if feels the need to, regardless of any public proclamations of “no negotiating with hostages.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-hostage-takers-in-the-us-actually-get-from-negotiations/771951/23 "2016-11-17T17:14:16Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > …“no negotiating with **hostages**.” Anyone else thinking of the scene in _Blazing Saddles_? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-hostage-takers-in-the-us-actually-get-from-negotiations/771951/24 "2016-11-17T19:41:20Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > The hostage takers are not offering anything that is theirs to give. The hostages are not theirs to deal. If you steal a bunch of money, hide it, and get caught, you can generally negotiate a lower sentence for returning the money. It might not be legally yours to give, but at some point the system acknowledges the reality that it’s worth some concessions for a better outcome for all. > [@](#): > > To honor the deal for hostages would be to cheapen their lives and give incentive for taking hostages. Maybe. What if the deal was “if all the hostages are released unharmed, you get immunity for the crime of taking hostages”? Any other crimes, the hostage taker is still on the hook for. This means that there’s no incentive to take hostages to cover for previous crimes (which I _think_ is how most hostage situations occur. A crime goes badly, the criminals get surrounded, and they grab someone to make sure the police don’t just come in guns blazing). But now there is an incentive for the hostage taker to calm down, realize that he’s screwed, but he can at least unscrew the most recent decision, and everyone walks away. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-hostage-takers-in-the-us-actually-get-from-negotiations/771951/25 "2016-11-17T21:22:30Z")
Shoot the hostage. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-hostage-takers-in-the-us-actually-get-from-negotiations/771951/26 "2016-11-18T17:39:19Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I dunno. How important are the hostages? The US will make any deals if feels the need to, regardless of any public proclamations of “no negotiating with hostages.” But who counts as important to the United States as a whole? Sure, I care very much if my loved ones are hostages. But if the President is a hostage, so what? If he gets killed, we get a new President. There’s nobody that important. The point is, making deals with hostage takers encourages hostage taking. A policy of never making deals means that hostage takers have the reasonable expectation of getting nothing for taking hostages, and therefore are less likely to try it. Sure, it’s tough on the hostages. But it prevents further hostage taking in the future. Paying only makes sense if you consider any one particular hostage incident in isolation. But you can’t take it in isolation. Setting the expectations of hostage takers to [“YOU GET NOTHING! YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY SIR!”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymPpIzaanhY) is extremely valuable to everyone. Complaining that this policy is hard on the current hostages ignores the fact that they probably wouldn’t be hostages today if we hadn’t caved in to the hostage takers in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-hostage-takers-in-the-us-actually-get-from-negotiations/771951/27 "2016-11-18T18:15:51Z")
Have you noticed a reduction of hostage taking because no one negotiates with hostage takers? You perhaps haven’t because we do and have negotiated with varying degrees of success with hostage takers in the past. And _how_ successful the negotiations were is a matter of opinion. Here’s a very interesting cite: [US Strategy to Counter Domestic Political Terrorism](https://books.google.com/books?id=0wmJ_JFoPRcC&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=%22successful+hostage+negotiations%22&source=bl&ots=S4u3tyhlNz&sig=K7zLQctmARGyOPGsa1hVvelfHzg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjeotip7rLQAhVpxoMKHR-dCMwQ6AEIMTAE#v=onepage&q=%22successful%20hostage%20negotiations%22&f=false) Startin on Page 85 is a section called The Hanafi Muslim Incident: [a Case Study of Successful Hostage negotiations](https://books.google.com/books?id=0wmJ_JFoPRcC&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=%22successful+hostage+negotiations%22&source=bl&ots=S4u3tyhlNz&sig=K7zLQctmARGyOPGsa1hVvelfHzg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjeotip7rLQAhVpxoMKHR-dCMwQ6AEIMTAE#v=onepage&q=%22successful%20hostage%20negotiations%22&f=false) In 1977 12 armed radicals took seized 3 separate sites and 34 hostages in Washington. Two people were killed and a number of others were seriously injured. Nevertheless, negotiators agreed to 3 of the 4 demands of the terrorist leaders, and the terrorists ultimately surrendered with no more violence. One of the demands agreed to was that the terrorist leader be released on his own recognizance while awaiting trial for this act. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-hostage-takers-in-the-us-actually-get-from-negotiations/771951/28 "2016-11-19T06:05:03Z")
I suspect that if you’re unarmed and have no hostages, you’ll have difficulty getting a negotiator to answer your calls. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-hostage-takers-in-the-us-actually-get-from-negotiations/771951/29 "2016-11-19T18:25:56Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > … > Maybe. What if the deal was “if all the hostages are released unharmed, you get immunity for the crime of taking hostages”? Any other crimes, the hostage taker is still on the hook for. This means that there’s no incentive to take hostages to cover for previous crimes (which I _think_ is how most hostage situations occur. A crime goes badly, the criminals get surrounded, and they grab someone to make sure the police don’t just come in guns blazing). > > But now there is an incentive for the hostage taker to calm down, realize that he’s screwed, but he can at least unscrew the most recent decision, and everyone walks away. Tha’ts about the best analysis I’ve seen of how to split the baby for a win-win outcome both short- and long-term. It solves the present (mostly inadvertent) crisis and doesn’t store up bad precedents for the future. > [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I suspect that if you’re unarmed and have no hostages, you’ll have difficulty getting a negotiator to answer your calls. Although here’s a recent case where the perp was unarmed and had no hostages and yet the negotiator had difficulty getting the perp to answer his calls: [Court Says Police Need to Make Time for “This Constitutional Bullshit” – Lowering the Bar](http://loweringthebar.net/2016/11/court-says-police-have-to-make-time.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-hostage-takers-in-the-us-actually-get-from-negotiations/771951.md?page=1)