# What can replace the Confederate Flag as a symbol of Southern Pride? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385 "2015-06-24T19:35:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/121 "2015-06-26T00:54:05Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > If I absolutely had to come up with a new “Southern Flag” that doesn’t support slavery and segregation, apart from making all the same grits and Elvis jokes as the rest of y’all, the best I can come up with is something sort of medieval and kind of eye-watering that would only be recognizable to a complete flag nerd: Take a “four quarter” flag (like the [Royal Standard of the United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Standard_of_the_United_Kingdom)). For the first quarter, use [the “Union”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Naval_Jack.svg) of the American flag (the blue part with the stars), because Southerners _are_ Americans, after all. For the second quarter, the [flag of England](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_England) (Southerners speak English, and the region started out as a collection of English colonies). For the third quarter, the [flag of Ulster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ulster), for the [Scots-Irish Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots-Irish_Americans). For the fourth quarter, the [Pan-African flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-African_flag), because **Left Hand of Dorkness** is right–we shouldn’t define “Southerners” to mean only “white Southerners”. I like that idea, with one caveat: I think Native Americans and especially the Cherokee are a pivotal aspect of Southern history. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/122 "2015-06-26T00:56:14Z")
You don’t think my flag idea is _busy enough_? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/123 "2015-06-26T01:17:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This, by the way, is pretty awesome. You’re a poster who engages in massive sweeping generalizations about Southerners, and you imply that I’m the one who thinks too many things are racially biased. The irony is scrumptious. What race do you think I’m biased towards? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/124 "2015-06-26T02:10:19Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > What race do you think I’m biased towards? Your bias, interestingly, appears to be toward white people and away from white people simultaneously. Your generalizations (since backed away from, somewhat to your credit) indict white people in the South in general, a bias away from white people; but given that your indictment doesn’t actually mention that it’s about white people but clearly is, you appear to be biased toward white people as the only people worth talking about in the South. At this point, I think I’ve said what I want to say about the bias your posts show and would prefer to return to the thread’s main topic. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/125 "2015-06-26T05:26:33Z")
[Here ya go, LHOD.](http://www.mebuckner.com/New%20Southern%20Flag.JPG) (All bits cribbed from Wikipedia with appropriate modifications.) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/126 "2015-06-26T05:50:54Z")
Show me or anyone here that the confederate flag is accepted as much by the “Black South” as it is the “White South” and you might have a leg to stand on. Until then, that flag is a symbol of shame and ignorance, despite the subjective opinion it looks cool. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/127 "2015-06-26T08:32:23Z")
It _does_ look cool. I’d like to see version with fifty stars. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/128 "2015-06-26T10:07:15Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Yes, there is racism all over, obviously. > > I spend approximately two weeks per year in the South. Let me guess–the holiday season? Your _in-laws_ live in the South? Explains a lot. Do you spend that time in Remote, Mississippi? Or Bugfuck, Arkansas? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/129 "2015-06-26T10:12:52Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > It _does_ look cool. I’d like to see version with fifty stars. You wish the Confederacy had won? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/130 "2015-06-26T10:24:41Z")
> [@mebuckner](#): > > [here ya go, lhod.](http://www.mebuckner.com/new%20southern%20flag.jpg) (all bits cribbed from wikipedia with appropriate modifications.) My _EYES!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/131 "2015-06-26T11:32:51Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > It doesn’t really mean much as a flag if nobody gives a shit about it. Seriously, what the hell is the New England flag? Can anyone say without clicking the link? No? All right then. I was sure it was going to be [this](http://www.logotypes101.com/logos/347/BC5ADC63A904B93EB7B1D07EA6C8A0C5/Pepperidge_Farm.png). Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/132 "2015-06-26T11:42:03Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Let me guess–the holiday season? Your _in-laws_ live in the South? > > Explains a lot. Do you spend that time in Remote, Mississippi? Or Bugfuck, Arkansas? Not hardly. I visit friends in various places. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/133 "2015-06-26T12:07:18Z")
The New England flag is [this one.](http://www.sportsflagsandpennants.com/boston_red_sox_4x6_flag_64871_prd1.html) ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/134 "2015-06-26T12:12:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your bias, interestingly, appears to be toward white people and away from white people simultaneously. Your generalizations (since backed away from, somewhat to your credit) indict white people in the South in general, a bias away from white people; but given that your indictment doesn’t actually mention that it’s about white people but clearly is, you appear to be biased toward white people as the only people worth talking about in the South. > > At this point, I think I’ve said what I want to say about the bias your posts show and would prefer to return to the thread’s main topic. Bias both toward AND away? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/135 "2015-06-26T12:47:56Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Not hardly. I visit friends in various places. In low places? Where the whiskey drowns and the beer chases your blues away? ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/136 "2015-06-26T12:56:01Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > In low places? Where the whiskey drowns and the beer chases your blues away? I wish! ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/137 "2015-06-26T13:02:03Z")
[Here’s my effort.](http://boxjamsdoodle.com/images/southernpride.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/138 "2015-06-26T15:18:00Z")
If you want a flag worth anything for the South, it needs to be simple and stick to one, or at most, two symbols. To be sufficiently distinct from the flag of the United States and the Confederacy, change the colors, but use no more than two or three. So what should the colors be? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/139 "2015-06-26T15:21:54Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > [Here ya go, LHOD.](http://www.mebuckner.com/New%20Southern%20Flag.JPG) (All bits cribbed from Wikipedia with appropriate modifications.) Works for me! (With the caveat that since I don’t actually think we need a flag, I’m easy). ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385/140 "2015-06-26T16:00:37Z")
Here ya go, Left Hand. [http://madamenoire.com/111937/black-student-displays-confederate-flag-as-symbol-of-southern-pride/](http://madamenoire.com/111937/black-student-displays-confederate-flag-as-symbol-of-southern-pride/) Sure, it was odd enough to have articles written about it, but he does indeed exist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-replace-the-confederate-flag-as-a-symbol-of-southern-pride/723385.md?page=8)