# What can the Russians or Chinese learn with a pristine Hellfire missile in their hands? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 9, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560 "2016-01-09T04:15:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560/21 "2016-01-11T06:20:42Z")
[quote=“Isilder, post:19, topic:742560”] We know that it should be only that, but the idea is they are trying to be tough on EACH step in the process, so that TWO MISTAKES dont occur together, eg its sent to Cuba AND it contains the latest developments in a chip that is debugger (eg JTAG) readable … Software can be obsfucated and ROMS can be encrypted. I would imagine they take these kinds pf precautions as a missile is one of the more likely military devices to fall into enemy hands. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560/22 "2016-01-11T07:38:47Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection, high-speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control, Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist and intelligent high-beam headlamps. 15-Speaker Mark Levinson Premium Surround Sound Audio System, high-resolution 8.0-inch LCD multi-information display. Navigation System with voice activation, and high-resolution 8.0-inch LCD multi-information display. Perforated leather trim, genuine wood accents, heated and ventilated front seats. Genuine wood accents and power tilt-and-telescopic steering wheel. Panorama glass roof, perforated semi-aniline leather trim, genuine wood accents, and ambient interior lighting. > > Pretty standard stuff, actually. Typical. No cup holders. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560/23 "2016-01-11T08:22:04Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Is it possible that you actually, truly believe this? That Pakistan’s armymen and its generals haven’t, on a large scale, used their public office to privately enrich themselves and their families? To borrow a horrible Chinese phrase which I always thought doesn’t make sense, I don’t know whether to laugh or to cry. Don’t want to hijack this thread futher, so this is my last reply. Individuals yes. The institutions as a whole. No. And please don’t rely on Ayesha Siddiqa Agha, her analysis has been pretty thoroughly debunked, by Cloughley amongst others. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560/24 "2016-01-11T09:28:44Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Individuals yes. It only takes one corrupt logistics officer for a shipment of missiles to go missing. Perhaps I was unfair to single out Pakistan, there is quite a few countries on the list that Hellfire missiles have been sold to where the same could be true. Point is I would bet that China had already got a hold of a complete hellfire missile a long time before this Cuba issue. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560/25 "2016-01-11T09:55:22Z")
The US has also sold them to Iraq, some $700 million worth. Since a good share of what we sell/give to Iraq finds its way to ISIS, then there’s got to be a number on the black market from there, if no where else. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560/26 "2016-01-11T10:18:00Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > It only takes one corrupt logistics officer for a shipment of missiles to go missing. Perhaps I was unfair to single out Pakistan, there is quite a few countries on the list that Hellfire missiles have been sold to where the same could be true. > > Point is I would bet that China had already got a hold of a complete hellfire missile a long time before this Cuba issue. Its not a question of singling out (and, munitions are not that easy to misplace without raising alarm up and down the chain), the point is that most countries who purchase weapons from the U.S have an institutional need to wish to continue purchasing weapons and not losing support, (your Missile is useless if you can no longer do regular maintenance because the U.S has cut you off). Losing weapons in war or operations is far more likely . The U.S has fired thousands of these things over the last few decades. Several would have failed to detonate or survived crashes where they could not be recovered and would find their way to the Russians and Chinese; its happened before, the Sovs got a[complete Sidewinder this way back in 1958](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-13_(missile)#Background_-_the_Sidewinder_missile) ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560/27 "2016-01-11T11:08:14Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Don’t want to hijack this thread futher, so this is my last reply. Individuals yes. The institutions as a whole. No. And please don’t rely on Ayesha Siddiqa Agha, her analysis has been pretty thoroughly debunked, by Cloughley amongst others. I won’t hijack further either, but a [Rs. 62 Billion scam](http://www.dawn.com/news/1232218/coas-green-lighted-nab-action-in-dha-valley-scam) (as just one example in just today’s newspaper) doesn’t happen without a fair amount of institutionalised corruption. I remembered after posting that you’re from an army family, so I should add that I do not mean these remarks personally. Institutionalised corruption can occur even if many honest officers exist, and they are often worst affected by it. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560/28 "2016-01-11T12:29:31Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I won’t hijack further either, but a [Rs. 62 Billion scam](http://www.dawn.com/news/1232218/coas-green-lighted-nab-action-in-dha-valley-scam) (as just one example in just today’s newspaper) doesn’t happen without a fair amount of institutionalised corruption. I remembered after posting that you’re from an army family, so I should add that I do not mean these remarks personally. Institutionalised corruption can occur even if many honest officers exist, and they are often worst affected by it. Errrr… read the thing again . The scam was done by private contractors against the military (specifically building affordable housing for families of military KIA, which IMO qualifies the guilty party as deserving being sodomized with a blunt broomstick and then shot). And that truly is it for this hijack. (Although, ironically in this vein, Pakistan did benefit when several [U.S Tomahawks fell in Pakistan en route to Afghanistan](http://www.technologyreview.com/news/406351/the-missiles-of-august-part-ii/)) which resulted in [Pakistan’s first cruise missile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babur_(cruise_missile)). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560/29 "2016-01-11T21:49:04Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Also on the list of countries that the US has sold them to is Pakistan. I have a sneaking suspicion that the US does not sell any arms to Pakistan that they’re not happy to fall into Chinese / Russian hands. Apart from the fact that the Pakistan military is notoriously corrupt, China and Pakistan also have a very strong relationship. The US doesn’t sell anything to _anybody_ that they are worried about winding up in the wrong hands. That’s why the F-22 is not available for export, and the source code for the F-35 wasn’t even available to _F-35 partner states_ until fairly recently. The Russians already have stuff as good as or better than the current block F-15s and F-16s, which is why we don’t mind selling them to Pakistan or almost anyone else. Because the Russians have it, the Chinese probably do too, since they have no compunctions at all about knocking off Russian designs when the Russians license them for limited production. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560/30 "2016-01-11T21:56:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The US doesn’t sell anything to _anybody_ that they are worried about winding up in the wrong hands. That’s why the F-22 is not available for export, and the source code for the F-35 wasn’t even available to _F-35 partner states_ until fairly recently. That is an overstatement. One could read that to mean that the United States Government is not concerned if a weapon that was the subject of a foreign sale is then transferred to another country… which is quite plainly not true. Virtually all weapons sold from the United States to some other country has imbedded in it some level of anti-tamper technology, which is intended to defeat attempts to reverse engineer some capability. For example, if Raytheon sells a missile to Duckaduckastan, the primary gonkulator chip would likely have features that would destroy the chip if someone tried to open it up. These features are included for the entire reason that we are concerned that the technology in the weapon would get into the wrong hands. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560/31 "2016-01-12T03:06:56Z")
These self-destroy things: a power surge and puff of smoke? Upthread something about a TAG something that peeks inside? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-the-russians-or-chinese-learn-with-a-pristine-hellfire-missile-in-their-hands/742560.md?page=1)