# What can we ask of our self? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 17, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106 "2006-08-17T17:36:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/1 "2006-08-17T17:36:25Z")
What can we ask of our self? A surveyor carries with her a tripod upon which to view the landscape for the purpose of plotting its topography. She mounts on this tripod the instruments with which to measure reality. I wish to use this analogy as a means to clarify my comprehension of the relationship between reality and me. The three legged tripod represent the three intellectual phases of a person’s life. One leg represents the early years of institutional education. The second leg represents the twenty years between the early years and those intellectually productive years represented by the third leg. Institutionalized education prepares us to become workers capable of supporting our self and our family. After schooling is finished we have many responsibilities focused primarily around job and family. But this period is one where our natural curiosity is still alive and wherein it is necessary to begin the process of learning those matters that were not part of institutional education. This twenty year period does not generally leave a great deal of time for self-actualizing learning but it is necessary to keep curiosity alive and to build a foundation of basic intellectual needs and to discover our intellectual talents. I think that this period is vital, for without careful utilization of this period we will have little curiosity or caring for intellectual matters later in life when we could be productively engaged in self-actualization through self-learning. I suspect that if the young person does not take careful advantage of these years immediately following the completion of schooling they will have seriously threatened any significant intellectual growth following mid life because curiosity and caring will have atrophied. Is it too much to ask of our self that we engage intellectually in our world by turning to self-learning to a significant level? I think we should do this. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/2 "2006-08-17T18:11:22Z")
[QUOTE=coberst] I suspect that if the young person does not take careful advantage of these years immediately following the completion of schooling they will have seriously threatened any significant intellectual growth following mid life because curiosity and caring will have atrophied. Is it too much to ask of our self that we engage intellectually in our world by turning to self-learning to a significant level? I think we should do this. [/QUOTE] It’s a bit like when Ghandi was asked what he thought of Western Civilization and her replied that he thought it was, “…A good idea.” You can’t spend too much time navel gazing while in that (20’s to 40’s) stage of life because you don’t really know who you will turn out to be. Self knowledge and introspection comes whether you seek it out or not by the time you are into your “middle age crisis” years. It’s no good trying to avoid or pre-empt that from happening because who you turn out to be (at mid-life) largely depends on the years leading up to it and what you experience in those years. In other words, try not to take it all so seriously or you’ll spoil all the fun. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/3 "2006-08-17T18:14:22Z")
[QUOTE=QuickSilver] It’s a bit like when Ghandi was asked what he thought of Western Civilization and her replied that he thought it was, “…A good idea.” [/QUOTE] Gandhi. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/4 "2006-08-17T18:22:11Z")
He said the same thing? :dubious: Plagiarizing bastard! ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/5 "2006-08-17T18:55:38Z")
I agree with the OP to a certain extent. In my twenties I didn’t feel inclined to educate myself further. I was sick of school after 20 years of schooling and I just wanted to enjoy myself and find my place in the world. I had some passing interests that I pursued. Now, in my thirties, I find my self fascinated by history, anthropology, science and more. I have been seeking out “the classics” because I am genuinely curious about them. I find myself reading more and more non-fiction. I think it is asking a bit much of a person still in their twenties to jump right in, but my continuing self-education is now something I enjoy and value very much. It’s a funny thing, I’ve often mused about how the more I learn, the more I feel that I hardly know anything. ---
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2006, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/6 "2006-08-18T06:32:41Z")
[QUOTE=Ghanima] I agree with the OP to a certain extent. In my twenties I didn’t feel inclined to educate myself further. I was sick of school after 20 years of schooling and I just wanted to enjoy myself and find my place in the world. I had some passing interests that I pursued. Now, in my thirties, I find my self fascinated by history, anthropology, science and more. I have been seeking out “the classics” because I am genuinely curious about them. I find myself reading more and more non-fiction. I think it is asking a bit much of a person still in their twenties to jump right in, but my continuing self-education is now something I enjoy and value very much. It’s a funny thing, I’ve often mused about how the more I learn, the more I feel that I hardly know anything. [/QUOTE] Well said! Spread the word. I think you have discovered something important that others would benefit from. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2006, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/7 "2006-08-18T07:13:28Z")
I don’t have time to look up a cite, but I read somewhere that Buddism or Hinduism (Told you I was going to be vague) prescribed stages in life. Young kids (up to 18) should study the collected " how-to" wisdom of the culture. From 18 to 40, they should immerse themselves in family and professional life being real busy. Then, after the kids had left the house, both mom and dad should be free to become monks and nuns to explore Wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2006, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/8 "2006-08-18T07:14:44Z")
[QUOTE=Ghanima] It’s a funny thing, I’ve often mused about how the more I learn, the more I feel that I hardly know anything. [/QUOTE] “The greater the island of knowledge, the longer the shoreline of wonder.” ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/9 "2006-08-18T17:18:46Z")
> [@](#): > > What can we ask of our self? “Self, are we singular or plural?” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/10 "2006-08-23T03:01:04Z")
I think I’m going to sign up for a course in architecture for the senile at my alma mater. It’s one among many courses offered for the old and still curious. No credit, of course, but then spelling doesn’t count either. I didn’t know such a program existed until yesterday. There’s a course on the First Amendment too – taught by a man that I have admired for years. I don’t suppose they will offer a course in Flamenco, but if they did, I would sign up even with these knees. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/11 "2006-08-23T04:10:58Z")
If I’m reading you correctly (and it’s late, so I might not be), your entire basis for knowledge is the intellect; your view of reality is that it’s empirical. In my experience, the bulk of knowledge gained from 20-40 had more to do with non-academic learning. Emotional, spiritual, social and self-knowledge occupied much of my time and energy, whether I chose it or not. I think that if you are willing and able to challenge your sense of comfort, you will continue to grow in myriad ways. ---
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/12 "2006-08-23T08:30:09Z")
[QUOTE=fessie] If I’m reading you correctly (and it’s late, so I might not be), your entire basis for knowledge is the intellect; your view of reality is that it’s empirical. In my experience, the bulk of knowledge gained from 20-40 had more to do with non-academic learning. Emotional, spiritual, social and self-knowledge occupied much of my time and energy, whether I chose it or not. I think that if you are willing and able to challenge your sense of comfort, you will continue to grow in myriad ways. [/QUOTE] Fessie What we learn depends upon what we value and upon our will, character, and native ability. I think it is important to realize that reality is more than ‘meets the eye’. We live most, if not all of our life, dealing with the surface reality. There is much more to it than that but it takes a great effort to overcome our attraction to the surface upon which we spend our life. Our intellect offers us a means to delve into the depth of reality and thus comprehend the structure that supports this day-to-day world we live in ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/13 "2006-08-23T08:41:45Z")
We could ask our self: “Self, why do we keep starting so many threads asking almost exactly the same thing, over and over? Why, self, why?” ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/14 "2006-08-23T10:42:34Z")
[QUOTE=coberst] Our intellect offers us a means to delve into the depth of reality and thus comprehend the structure that supports this day-to-day world we live in [/QUOTE] A means, but far from the only one. ---
**Author:** ![jimbeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/858c86/32.png) [@jimbeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbeam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/15 "2006-08-23T11:48:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Is it too much to ask of our self that we engage intellectually in our world by turning to self-learning to a significant level? I think we should do this. That’s the jest of it, right? No, it’s not too much and of course we should. When I taught school I advocated courses in psychology and philosopy be required in high school. Guess how that went over? ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/16 "2006-08-23T13:01:01Z")
[QUOTE=coberst] Fessie What we learn depends upon what we value and upon our will, character, and native ability. I think it is important to realize that reality is more than ‘meets the eye’. We live most, if not all of our life, dealing with the surface reality. There is much more to it than that but it takes a great effort to overcome our attraction to the surface upon which we spend our life. Our intellect offers us a means to delve into the depth of reality and thus comprehend the structure that supports this day-to-day world we live in [/QUOTE] Our intellect is one means, sure. I can relate to your OP b/c it’s exactly the kind of thing I would’ve written myself about 20 years ago. I believe in continued growth, so I’m with you to a point. I also think you’re limiting yourself by your definitions, though, which is what we all tend to do. There is that which is known that can be put into words and transmitted in that symbolic way (since words are not things-in-themselves, but descriptions of them). And yes, you can use that understanding to build a structure, a framework, an understanding of the world. Perhaps it will have the strength and depth to reach beyond superficial knowledge, perhaps not. The intellect is not the only way of reaching knowledge and understanding and our selves, however. Many people in the Western world, during the first 20 years of their lives, have the privilege of concentrating their efforts on gaining an intellectual knowledge of the world based on academic study. Circumstances are ideally such that no major life events interrupt this focus. But give it another 20 years, and stuff’s gonna hit the fan. People who are close to you die unexpectedly, they grow ill and incapacitated, they reveal traits and flaws that were previously unimagined. People lose jobs, lose their money, lose their hope. And then one’s understanding of “reality” has to adapt. Unexpected delights throw you off, too – a passion can hit you out of nowhere, a place or person can seize your heart and change your idea of who you are. You may want to read Sheldon Kopp’s _If You Meet the Buddha On the Road, Kill Him_. I’d quote his eschatological list here, but my kids beckon… ---
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/17 "2006-08-23T21:27:31Z")
I have no knowledge of Eastern philosophy or religion so I cannot speak with any comprehension about these matters. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/18 "2006-08-23T21:35:33Z")
I suspect you should get out more - my personal recommendation is to travel in different cultures - and live in the moment - a trite phase which to me means “stop thinking about what you’re doing while you’re doing it - just experience it as it comes”. Otherwise it strikes me you’re in danger of crawling up your own butthole. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/19 "2006-08-23T21:46:28Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] Otherwise it strikes me you’re in danger of crawling up your own butthole. [/QUOTE] Not that there’s anything wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106/20 "2006-08-23T23:35:07Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] I suspect you should get out more - my personal recommendation is to travel in different cultures - and live in the moment - a trite phase which to me means “stop thinking about what you’re doing while you’re doing it - just experience it as it comes”. Otherwise it strikes me you’re in danger of crawling up your own butthole. [/QUOTE] You do have away with words. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-can-we-ask-of-our-self/369106.md?page=2)