# What Causes "Charley Horses"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 12, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133 "2009-05-12T03:20:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Mama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5ac83/32.png) [@Atomic\_Mama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Mama)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/1 "2009-05-12T03:20:28Z")
Those awful cramps that occur in the lower legs. I fall asleep, wake to stretch, overstretch my feet & the cramps hit. :eek: Not necessarily in my big calf muscles. Lately they seem to radiate out of my toes into smaller muscles, on the sides of my lower legs. And while I’m asking, what’s the cure? Nutrition? Exercise? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/2 "2009-05-12T03:42:38Z")
I’d always heard that potassium helps, but I have no evidence. Go eat a banana, or use salt substitute (potassium chloride). ---
**Author:** ![bink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@bink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bink)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/3 "2009-05-12T03:45:37Z")
Calcium, magnesium, potassium, vitamin E, and drink lots more water than you have been. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/4 "2009-05-12T03:49:43Z")
Would taking a Tums help, then? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/5 "2009-05-12T03:52:40Z")
[Mayo says there’s no known reason](http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/night-leg-cramps/MY00410). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/6 "2009-05-12T04:22:03Z")
FWIW (and I do know this method does not work with all people) the cure I found took practice, in my case as soon as the pain starts I stretch the leg but at the same time point the toes and foot up towards the upper body with a lot of might. Letting others do it (the classic bit of a coach pulling the leg and pointing the feet towards the upper body) does not work for me. I guess for me the fear of causing more pain in my legs prevented me from finding the solution before, but once again, I do not think this method will work with all. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/7 "2009-05-12T05:08:29Z")
A combination of calcium and magnesium, and some tonic water wouldn’t hurt. (Drink it–don’t pour it on the affected area. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/8 "2009-05-12T05:21:13Z")
I agree about the magnesium. However, the most common form, magnesium oxide, is not absorbed very well. Magnesium citrate or glycinate are better, and worth paying a little more for. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/9 "2009-05-12T05:48:17Z")
In my case they are due to lower back spinal trauma. The bigger mystery to me is why Americans say “Charley Horse” instead of the far simpler and more descriptive “cramp”. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/10 "2009-05-12T12:31:44Z")
Shari Lewis > **[Shari Lewis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shari_Lewis)** > > Shari Lewis (born Phyllis Naomi Hurwitz; January 17, 1933 – August 2, 1998) was a Peabody-winning American ventriloquist, puppeteer, children's entertainer, television show host, dancer, singer, actress, author, and symphonic conductor. She famously created and instantiated the sock puppet Lamb Chop, for Captain Kangaroo in March 1956 and then continued on the early seasons (1957–1959) of Hi Mom, a local morning television show which aired on WRCA-TV in New York City. > Lewis was born Phyllis Naom... ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/11 "2009-05-12T12:41:57Z")
These tend to be of uncertain etiology for the most part. Since muscle cramps and symptoms related to nerves can be triggered by abnormalities in various body chemistries–calcium and potassium in particular–attention is often paid to making sure those are normal. Because of the relationship between intracellular (difficult to measure) and extracellular (blood) levels, even with “normal” blood levels patients are often encourage to use dietary supplements which make sure those elements are not deficient. Quinine has also been a popular traditional bedtime remedy, and in years past at least has been a common physician recommendation as well. Back in my days as a practicing Internist (a different millenium) I don’t remember much success treating these… I should mention that too much of anything in the electrolyte family–calcium, magnesium, potassium (and even quinine or anything else that can alter conduction and membrane potentials)–can be harmful so it’s not like you can just load up on them and see if it cures you. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/12 "2009-05-12T17:19:11Z")
Munching a TUMS works pretty well for me. In the _People’s Pharmacy_ newspaper column, an astonishing number of readers write to say the “bar of soap” treatment keeps away leg cramps for them. You don’t eat the soap, or wash your legs with it. Put it under the bed sheet, near the foot of the bed. Is that wacky, or what?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/13 "2009-05-12T17:51:17Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > In my case they are due to lower back spinal trauma. The bigger mystery to me is why Americans say “Charley Horse” instead of the far simpler and more descriptive “cramp”. Among my friends (at least those with whom this topic has come up), the two have a very different meaning. In our vernacular, the phenomenon described by the OP is what we would call a “cramp.” A “Charlie Horse” is what happens when you hit someone’s thigh in just the right spot (about halfway down the thigh on the exterior side) with with your fist, inducing a cringe-worthy flash of pain and residual discomfort and numbness in the leg. If you’re wondering why we’d do this, well, boys will be boys, I suppose (I should note that I haven’t seen it done in quite some time at this point). Does anyone else take “Charlie Horse” to mean something similar? ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/14 "2009-05-12T20:28:31Z")
> [@hobscrk777](#): > > Among my friends (at least those with whom this topic has come up), the two have a very different meaning. > > In our vernacular, the phenomenon described by the OP is what we would call a “cramp.” A “Charlie Horse” is what happens when you hit someone’s thigh in just the right spot (about halfway down the thigh on the exterior side) with with your fist, inducing a cringe-worthy flash of pain and residual discomfort and numbness in the leg. If you’re wondering why we’d do this, well, boys will be boys, I suppose (I should note that I haven’t seen it done in quite some time at this point). > > Does anyone else take “Charlie Horse” to mean something similar? Yes. I’ve understood a “charlie horse” to mean a strain of a hamstring muscle. Anyway, cramps can be caused by many different reasons, even excessive use of a muscle. I’ve had cramps in my calves after swimming, which soon dissipated after I stopped swimming. I sometimes get calf cramps now when lying in bed. I believe these are caused by “tired muscles”: too much use of my calf muscles running or playing tennis. My cure is simply to stand up, and the cramp disappears. But nutrition (or lack thereof) and dehydration can also cause cramps. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/15 "2009-05-12T20:36:23Z")
The additional info, which I did not post, is that by standing, more blood is diverted into the calf muscles (there are two in each leg). The cramp is apparently caused, at least in my case, by a lack of blood to the muscle ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/16 "2009-05-12T20:55:15Z")
> [@hobscrk777](#): > > Does anyone else take “Charlie Horse” to mean something similar? Well, the OP, for one. > [@Atomic Mama](#): > > Those awful cramps that occur in the lower legs. I fall asleep, wake to stretch, overstretch my feet & the cramps hit. I get really bad ones once in a while. Like, actively trying not to yell in pain. I’ve had some luck with **GIGObuster** ’s technique, though. ---
**Author:** ![bink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@bink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bink)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/17 "2009-05-12T20:58:37Z")
You’d have to drink gallons of tonic water to get enough quinine to make a difference. I think you’d be sick from the sugar first, or at least really hammered from the gin. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/18 "2009-05-12T20:58:54Z")
In my universe (apparently quite small), a charlie (N.B.) horse is a cramp-like muscle pain without muscle contraction. A knot of sorts just appears in a muscle and the usual basic anti-cramp techniques, like stretching, does nothing. I’ve had some charlie horses where the spot was still sore for a couple days afterwards. No blow to the muscle involved at all. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/19 "2009-05-12T21:03:55Z")
When I asked my doc about nightly leg cramps, he recommended stretching my legs before bed. Works like a charm. I’d call it a “cramp” for what the OP describes. A “charley horse” is what you get when someone hits you in a big muscle (usually arm, sometimes leg), preferably with one knuckle of the fist extended for that special penetration. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133/20 "2009-05-12T23:09:33Z")
Keeping the lower legs warm seems to help lower the frequency, at least for me and my mother ( she was a restless sleeper, and would often end up with a lower leg uncovered ). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-charley-horses/496133.md?page=2)