# What causes 'effeminate' speech patterns in gay men? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 13, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787 "2011-05-13T15:59:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/21 "2011-05-13T17:36:25Z")
As a gay man I’ve never come across the so called effeminate heterosexual, as in SNL sketches. Of course you can’t tell who is gay and who is not gay all the time, but sometimes you can tell. Let’s face it, you didn’t have to be a genius to recognize it in certain people. For instance, did anyone ever think that little kid from _Who’s The Boss_, was gay? Even when he was a wee little shaver. I don’t have the effected lisp so to speak, well mostly not. I recall when I chipped a tooth and had to wait three months for the dental insurance to kick it. People thought I was gay, which I was, but my speech was problematic because of the tooth. When I got it capped the lisp went away. So as you can see, you can’t always tell and even straight people can have reasons to talk the “gay way.” But in the end the real reason gay people talk that way is [this](http://tremendousnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/6a00c2251c04b6f21900c2251f636c8e1d-320pi.jpg) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/22 "2011-05-13T17:50:45Z")
Northwestern Professor Michael Bailey (yes, of fuck-saw fame) has studied this a bit. From his department [website](http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/research.html): > [@](#): > > But there are other ways that gay men and lesbians may differ from same-sex heterosexuals. Stereotypes about homosexual people include sex-atypical occupational and recreational interests, superficial aspects of behavior such as movement and speech, and in the case of lesbians, physical appearance. My lab is examining the validity of these stereotypes. If they are true, on average, it will then be important to determine whether they represent innate or social causation (or both). The idea that people’s sexual orientations can sometimes be accurately judged by listening to them say a few (nonsexual) words is fascinating and potentially important in illuminating the origins of sexual orientation and sex differences in articulation patterns. > > In general our lab is confirming the stereotypes, on average. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/23 "2011-05-13T18:03:48Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Get back to us on them in 20 years. Possible, of course, but we’re talking two 30somethings and a 40something. These aren’t kids in the sticks hiding from gaybashers; they’re grown men in a city with a large queer population. What’s the average age for coming out these days, anyhow? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/24 "2011-05-13T19:00:25Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Yep. I was one of them. Although it wasn’t ‘much later’ in life that I came out. I knew I was gay before I even knew what gay was. I knew I was gay when I was 7 (before I understood anything about sex), but I was so ashamed of it at the time that I did my best to make sure that I did not talk or walk in an effeminate way. To answer the OP, I am tending to agree with Dio. You might as well ask why so many African-Americans talk like they’re from the south, when their families have been out of the south for generations. It’s a cultural thing, that people adopt consciously or unconsciously to fit in with their identified cultural group and their circle of friends. I know a lot more adults who behave effeminately (or towards that side of the spectrum) than I ever knew children to do when I was growing up (50’s and 60’s). Roddy ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/25 "2011-05-13T19:00:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s just an affect. But, what is the effect of the affect? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/26 "2011-05-13T19:03:30Z")
For a long time “gay speech” was not an accurate way to ascertain who was gay. Actually, in my generation (over 40 . . . to WAY over 40), most of us don’t speak any differently than anyone else. But I am definitely hearing it more and more with younger gays, especially after they’ve come out, and especially among other gay people. I don’t think it’s any different than the way some black people speak differently among themselves vs. among non-blacks. I remember in college, I had a friend who was black, and we could always tell whether she’d just spent a weekend at home with her family and friends. So it’s somewhat a factor of the kind of speech you’re comfortable with, in an environment where it’s accepted. And of course, the more accepting society becomes, the more comfort in speaking that way. Younger people are growing up in a more accepting environment than when we were growing up. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/27 "2011-05-13T21:39:04Z")
This paper’s data indicates that lisping is more common in gay males than in straight males or in females. [prevalence of lisping in gay men](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T85-4TGHND2-3&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F30%2F2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1751349954&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2de25e2712e4a0c75ca057fbb739e253&searchtype=a). Further study is needed to see if this difference truly exists, and whether or not it is found in other cultures. Some studies have shown the same results in spanish speaking populations in the Americas and in Europe. More than one researcher has posited that sexual orientation is hardwired in the brain in such a way as to interact with speech centers. That would certainly be a possible physiological explanation for the association of lisps with homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/28 "2011-05-13T21:40:55Z")
Then why don’t all homosexual men lisp? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/29 "2011-05-13T21:44:27Z")
It’s not really about lisping per se. I know only one gay man who actually lisps (and there is nothing effeminate about him), but I know several who “sound gay”; all except one are under 30. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/30 "2011-05-13T21:54:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Then why don’t all homosexual men lisp? I’m not arguing for this genetic link between homosexuality and lisping, but there are hundreds of cases where one trait is statistically significantly linked to another, even though the overlap is not 100%. You don’t think that non-lisping homosexual men provide a refutation of the hypothesis that the behavior is based on genetics, do you? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/31 "2011-05-13T22:02:08Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Some studies have shown the same results in spanish speaking populations in the Americas and in Europe. That’s Castilian, isn’t it? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/32 "2011-05-13T22:09:20Z")
Dan Savage answered this question once. He said that effeminate speech patterns might be the normal way of speaking, and the “normal” heterosexual male speech patterns are the results of our macho culture. I like that explanation the best. I think it’s our macho culture that prevents men from speaking effeminately, and not gay culture that causes men to speak effeminately. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/33 "2011-05-13T22:23:53Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Dan Savage answered this question once. He said that effeminate speech patterns might be the normal way of speaking, and the “normal” heterosexual male speech patterns are the results of our macho culture. > > I like that explanation the best. I think it’s our macho culture that prevents men from speaking effeminately, and not gay culture that causes men to speak effeminately. I have brought this up in the past. Specifically, why do NASCAR announcers and guys in truck commercials speak the way they do? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/34 "2011-05-13T22:24:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Then why don’t all homosexual men lisp? Because, as in most things physiological, it’s not either 100% or 0%, on or off, etc. Causes are multifactorial, modified by dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of various nuances based on number of neuronal connections, relative abundance or scarcity of neurotransmitters, nerve training, environment, conditioning, etc. etc. ad nauseum. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/35 "2011-05-13T22:31:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Then why don’t all homosexual men lisp? Because there is probably not a single cause for homosexuality. There may be a variety of developmental or genetic factors that contribute to it. And lisping may be associated with only one of the various factors. But the “effeminate” speech pattern goes beyond lisping of course, and includes inflexion, tone, and word use. And at least in my experience, this is much more common than lisping. Again in my experience, in cases where I personally am aware of the orientation of the individual, this speech pattern is much more common in gay males than in straight ones. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/36 "2011-05-14T01:25:53Z")
And I’ve never known one who couldn’t turn that affect off like a switch when they wanted to, so I’m not buying anything physiological, at least not yet. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/37 "2011-05-14T02:06:38Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That’s Castilian, isn’t it? 🙂 It’s interesting to turn that around and consider English from the outsider’s view: There are plenty of guys in other countries who cringe a bit when pronouncing words like “think” and “thin” because to their ears those words are just as lispy as Castillian Spanish to ours. But native speakers don’t hear it, since “think” and “thin” are ordinary words, spoken since childhood. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/38 "2011-05-14T02:16:00Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > There are plenty of guys in other countries who cringe a bit when pronouncing words like “think” and “thin” because to their ears those words are just as lispy as Castillian Spanish to ours. Durn foreigners…telling us how to speak English! ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/39 "2011-05-14T03:01:02Z")
I live in a small town that is very GLBT friendly, with a very heavy emphasis on the “L”; the population of 50+ butch-ish lesbians here is unreal. Yes, there’s a lesbian inflection. It sounds more direct, matter-of-fact and has fewer “curlicues”, for lack of a better work, than with straight women of the same age. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787/40 "2011-05-14T03:13:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > And I’ve never known one who couldn’t turn that affect off like a switch when they wanted to, so I’m not buying anything physiological, at least not yet. I can’t, at least not without sounding really forced and fake. I also can’t hear anything “effeminate” about my voice unless I’m listening to a recording of myself. Oh, and in high school after I got my braces off I had both an upper & lower retainer that made me sound like Cindy fucking Brady. I ended up wearing that almost twice as long I should’ve because I wouldn’t wear it at school, work, or in public. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-causes-effeminate-speech-patterns-in-gay-men/581787.md?page=3)