# What changed about English estates (like Downton Abby) that caused them to fail after WWI? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 26, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-changed-about-english-estates-like-downton-abby-that-caused-them-to-fail-after-wwi/778232 "2017-01-26T15:43:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-changed-about-english-estates-like-downton-abby-that-caused-them-to-fail-after-wwi/778232/41 "2017-01-30T21:33:15Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > That sounds really interesting. I’ll have to keep an eye out for it. It looks like it’s currently only viewable on the web by people in England. It’s on DVD, but they look to be region 2. Hopefully they show it again. > > On one episode, a staff member goes to a house which is in decline. You could see the normal upkeep wasn’t done anymore and the place was falling apart. There must have been constant upkeep needed with the stonework, woodwork, etc. I would guess the rise in salaries of skilled trades really hit these houses hard. If you can get skilled workers for a servant’s wage, then you can afford to keep up with all the maintenance needed. But if their wages go up and you can’t, then I’m sure the problems started to cascade from there. If you’re really interested you can get a multi-region player for well under $100. ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-changed-about-english-estates-like-downton-abby-that-caused-them-to-fail-after-wwi/778232/42 "2017-01-30T23:23:09Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > This seems like the main reason–and that leads me to a question: > Why is the tax so high? > Is -and was- there a reason why the government wanted to dismantle the estates and force them into bankruptcy? > > The grand estates and the aristocratic class who lived in them have been part of England for centuries. > I assume that almost all the members of the House of Lords owned such estates. Today, of course, the Lords has been reduced to a powerless ceremonial attachment to Parliament. But a century ago, why didn’t they have enough political clout to change the tax laws, and protect their own interests and lifestyles? The changes in social and political climate that led to this first started in the 18th- and 19th-centuries. At a time when almost all politicians were landowners and all landowners politicians, a significant portion of the British political establishment was made of the Whigs, who opposed the power of the monarchy and called for a more powerful Parliament. Eventually, with changes in demographics, Whigs began calling for the expansion of voting rights, which would later on directly lead to the diminished power of the House of Lords. However, I don’t think it’s accurate to say that early Whigs simply didn’t have the foresight to see that their decisions would ultimately diminish the power of their own (i.e., the landed gentry). Many of their decisions were influenced by the ideals of the Enlightenment period, and at least some of the landowners genuinely appeared to care about [bettering the lives of their tenants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Fitzwilliam,_4th_Earl_Fitzwilliam#Early_life_.281748.E2.80.9382.29): > [@](#): > > Fitzwilliam, as a landlord, reduced rents and cancelled arrears in bad times, as well as supplying cheap food and giving to the elderly free coal and blankets. He also performed his obligations in repairing rented properties and his charitable dispensations were generous but discriminating. His chaplain at Wentworth said that he was “ever giving alms to the poor…the tale of woe was never told to him in vain”. Fitzwilliam also supported Friendly Societies and savings banks to encourage the poor to practice thrift and self-reliance.[12] Fitzwilliam enjoyed the life of a country gentleman; hunting, racehorse breeding and a patron of the turf. At the Doncaster races in 1827 the Duke of Devonshire turned up on the first day with a coach and six and twelve outriders, the same as Fitzwilliam. Fitzwilliam appeared the next day “with two coaches and six, and sixteen outriders, and has kept the thing up ever since.” ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-changed-about-english-estates-like-downton-abby-that-caused-them-to-fail-after-wwi/778232/43 "2017-01-30T23:31:33Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > That sounds really interesting. I’ll have to keep an eye out for it. It looks like it’s currently only viewable on the web by people in England. It’s on DVD, but they look to be region 2. Hopefully they show it again. > > On one episode, a staff member goes to a house which is in decline. You could see the normal upkeep wasn’t done anymore and the place was falling apart. There must have been constant upkeep needed with the stonework, woodwork, etc. I would guess the rise in salaries of skilled trades really hit these houses hard. If you can get skilled workers for a servant’s wage, then you can afford to keep up with all the maintenance needed. But if their wages go up and you can’t, then I’m sure the problems started to cascade from there. It’s definitely a fascinating series – interesting enough for the architectural insights, but made even better by the detailed look into the people and history of the homes and estates. I believe the episode you’re referring to is the one on Wentworth Woodhouse – this was my favorite of the entire series, and relevant to this OP. Cruickshank goes into some detail about the political decline of the Fitzwilliams family and how their political work in favor of progressive ideals of an expanded voting population led to the decline of the country estates as political machines. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-changed-about-english-estates-like-downton-abby-that-caused-them-to-fail-after-wwi/778232.md?page=2)