# What composer wrote the most technically challenging piano pieces? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 31, 2007, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242 "2007-01-31T06:41:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/21 "2007-01-31T18:34:41Z")
[QUOTE=Carnac the Magnificent!] That said, they must have been gigantic for his day. Liszt simply had an incredible finger spread that allowed him to play tenths (a spread of ten notes) on the keyboard. [/QUOTE] I think he must’ve had a span larger than that, because tenths are not exactly uncommon in piano music. My hands are average-sized, and I can hit a tenth comfortably (and even elevenths in certain keys.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/22 "2007-01-31T18:37:43Z")
I can’t find any definite confirmation, but websites suggest that Liszt and Rachmaninoff could stretch up to a 12th or even 13th. ---
**Author:** ![Greenback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/2bfe46/32.png) [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/23 "2007-01-31T18:44:49Z")
According to my SIL (some university piano) and her professor / instructor, Rachmaninov produced the most difficult pieces on a consistent basis. Whether he held the title for the most difficult piece, they would not say. But possessing a Rachmaninov repetoire(?) was a feat. Horowitz was said to be the only pianist Rachmaninov preferred his pieces played by. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/24 "2007-01-31T19:30:02Z")
This [thread](http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/57547) at Metafilter is just what you’re looking for. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/25 "2007-01-31T19:34:56Z")
Moved to CS. - **xash** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/26 "2007-01-31T20:57:14Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] I think he must’ve had a span larger than that, because tenths are not exactly uncommon in piano music. My hands are average-sized, and I can hit a tenth comfortably (and even elevenths in certain keys.) [/QUOTE] I should have noted: He could play tenths **with ease** –no mean feat for his day–and we’re talking with sometimes lightning speed. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/27 "2007-01-31T21:30:11Z")
Some composers have written things for the piano (and for other instruments) which are physically impossible to play. There can be two arguments for this: (1) the score is not expected to be realised literally and exactly, and/or (2) challenges can be placed for future performers to expand instrumental techniques in ways which may be able to accomodate what has been written. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/28 "2007-01-31T22:18:26Z")
Higgeldy Piggeldy Sergei Rachmaninov wrote his concertos for handspans like wings. Few realistically can pianistically digitalistically play the damned things. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/29 "2007-01-31T22:30:08Z")
**applause** Wow, that’s pretty good. And it scans without difficulty ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/30 "2007-01-31T22:43:46Z")
Thanks, however the applause is not for me. Games magazine ran a contest many years ago for users to submit their own [double dactyls](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_dactyl) (a humorous and rigidly structured verse form, similar to a limerick). That was one of their examples. Which I’ve remembered all this time, and finally got a chance to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/31 "2007-01-31T23:58:57Z")
> [@](#): > > John Cage did a few pieces where the two hands are not playing in the same key. I have to imagine that’s extremely difficult to play. John Cage did pieces involving _keys_? And played on _ **musical instruments** _? **Quercus** , a slight variation on that Mozart story would give new meaning to the phrase “playing by ear”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/32 "2007-02-01T02:15:48Z")
[QUOTE=Carnac the Magnificent!] I should have noted: He could play tenths **with ease** –no mean feat for his day–and we’re talking with sometimes lightning speed. [/QUOTE] In stride jazz piano, you’ll find jumping tenths and walking tenths pretty regularly. I don’t know how much different hand size is today, but I would say playing tenths with ease is not a terribly unusual feat. Twelfths or thirteenths, yeah. I’ve seen the cast of his hands in Budapest as well, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he could play twelfths or so pretty easily. They are HUGE compared with mine. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/33 "2007-02-01T03:58:45Z")
[QUOTE=Satyagrahi] I once read that Brahms’ transcription for piano left hand of the Bach Chaconne from the Partita #2 for Unaccompanied Violin, BWV 1004, is not only supremely difficult but was intentionally done that way to make it difficult for pianists with a left hand of merely human proportions. Apparently Brahms had enormous hands. He would have made one hell of a baseball catcher, and made more money besides. 🙂 [/QUOTE] This is 100% true, both for the Brahms and the Busoni transcriptions. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/34 "2007-02-07T12:00:54Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] John Cage did pieces involving _keys_? And played on _ **musical instruments** _? [/QUOTE] Of course. Didn’t you know _4’33’’_ is in all 24 major and minor keys at once? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![talfi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e5b9ba/32.png) [@talfi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/talfi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/35 "2014-04-17T04:47:46Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata sounds difficult to play Well, it may sound difficult to play, but it isn’t at all for most piano players. I’ve made a much more complex version of the Moonlight Sonata. [http://www.premierconcert.com/clair-de-lune](http://www.premierconcert.com/clair-de-lune) As a “young” composer and piano player, I can tell that my own compositions are pretty challenging too (they are all on the same site which link is given above). But I would say that liszt’s pieces sounds the most difficult to me. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/36 "2014-04-17T06:40:10Z")
Post No. 9 of this thread mentions (and misspells) Charles Valentin Alkan. Check him out. He’s rough! Among many other cute tricks, he is also the classical music radio station DJ’s bane, as he was fond of unresolved endings. Music…music…music… “You have just heard…” Music… “Well, he got me again.” [Here is a lovely (?) and definitely challenging piece on YouTube.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIEhFsi6hF8) ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/37 "2014-04-17T08:15:39Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > In stride jazz piano, you’ll find jumping tenths and walking tenths pretty regularly. I don’t know how much different hand size is today, but I would say playing tenths with ease is not a terribly unusual feat. Twelfths or thirteenths, yeah. I’ve seen the cast of his hands in Budapest as well, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he could play twelfths or so pretty easily. They are HUGE compared with mine. _sigh_ And this is why I will never been anything other than an enthusiastic amateur piano player - I can barely reach an octave! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/38 "2014-04-17T11:42:32Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > Oh and **ultrafilter** , ISTM that a piano piece in two keys would not be especially hard to learn - I used to play the piano, learned a bit of Bartok, I’m pretty sure some of it was bitonal. **Much more challenging would be playing with the two hands at different tempos.** Definitely. On a related note, there’s _Night Fantasies_ by **Carter** which must be terribly difficult rhythmically: Part 1: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWspGgzXiy4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWspGgzXiy4) Part 2: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8jpSV9N59k](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8jpSV9N59k) > [@](#): > > The rhythms belong to two sequences, which are almost incompatible with each other: the basic ratio is 24 to 25; we hear the rhythms that begin together, draw gradually apart, and then return. This means that the rhythm of the bar lines can never be heard in this piece The last sentence is a bit obscure, though. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/39 "2014-04-17T13:38:30Z")
Ravel’s Concerto for the Left Hand . . . played by the right hand. ---
**Author:** ![Stormcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Stormcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stormcrow)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242/40 "2014-04-17T15:42:58Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > Of course. Didn’t you know _4’33’’_ is in all 24 major and minor keys at once? 😃 Bah, I can play that no problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-composer-wrote-the-most-technically-challenging-piano-pieces/390242.md?page=3)