# What comprises Trump's "eight-year assault on your Second Amendment freedoms"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460 "2017-04-28T22:53:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/61 "2017-04-29T17:49:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You can still carry a flintlock musket outdoors if you’re acting as a militia member, just as freely as ever. No Second Amendment rights have been infringed at all, nor have they ever been. So the first amendment doesn’t apply to radio, tv or the internet? That is one of the most retarded arguments ever presented by the anti-gun side of the debate. > [@](#): > > Obama did quite a lot \*for \*the firearms industry, actually, just by being a Democrat. That let them scare people into buying a lot more product. Sales are \*down \*substantially under Trump. All things being equal, I’d trade corporate profits for more expansive rights for law abiding citizens. I don’t really care how much profit Smith & Wesson is making. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/62 "2017-04-29T17:51:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t know WTF the NRA is going to do now that Obama is not in the white house anymore. > > If I were the NRA I would start secretly funding an amendment to let Obama run again. Donations to Planned Parenthood went up when Trump got in office. My point being that entities such as PP and the NRA benefit financially when the opposition is in political power. But they lose on the legislation side (roughly speaking). Damned if you do. Damned if you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/63 "2017-04-29T17:59:51Z")
Heck, the Smith&Wesson stock I bought during Obama’s presidency did very well for me. I sold it for a nice profit the week after Trump was elected and it’s been bearish ever since. Had Hillary won, I’m sure I’d still have it and it’d still be climbing. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/64 "2017-04-29T18:23:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, the Smith&Wesson stock I bought during Obama’s presidency did very well for me. I sold it for a nice profit the week after Trump was elected and it’s been bearish ever since. Had Hillary won, I’m sure I’d still have it and it’d still be climbing. What is interesting is how little it adheres to reality. I was amazed over eight years how every few months there would be an, “Obama is coming for your guns!” which would result in renewed sales. Thing was Obama never came for their guns. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/65 "2017-04-29T18:32:24Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What is interesting is how little it adheres to reality. > > I was amazed over eight years how every few months there would be an, “Obama is coming for your guns!” which would result in renewed sales. > > Thing was Obama never came for their guns. But he _wanted_ to, you could tell! :eek::eek::eek: I can understand the perception of a “chilling effect” in the sense of a president (undoubtedly the holder of huge official powers) who says something in passing like “That was awful” after yet another school shooting can trigger a skipped heartbeat in people who live in constant fear of gun-loss. It wouldn’t even surprise me if they considered that an assault. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/66 "2017-04-29T18:53:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I can understand the perception of a “chilling effect” in the sense of a president (undoubtedly the holder of huge official powers) who says something in passing like “That was awful” after yet another school shooting can trigger a skipped heartbeat in people who live in constant fear of gun-loss. It wouldn’t even surprise me if they considered that an assault. Fair enough but it displays a complete mis-understanding of how legislation works in this country. There is a sense that a school shooting today will mean a ban on guns tomorrow so there is a surge in gun sales. The reality is even IF a school shooting today results in legislation against guns it will take months (at the least) to pass in the face of the most powerful lobby in the US not to mention legal challenges. End result is anti-gun legislation will take years to move through the system. Don’t rush to buy a gun because you are afraid of Obama. Rush to buy a gun when it is at the Supreme Court with a liberal majority. I really think the worrying about Obama banning guns is merely used as a way for people who already want to buy a gun to justify spending the money (rather than fixing their roof or something else). ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/67 "2017-04-29T19:10:47Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Fair enough but it displays a complete mis-understanding of how legislation works in this country. > > There is a sense that a school shooting today will mean a ban on guns tomorrow so there is a surge in gun sales. > > The reality is even IF a school shooting today results in legislation against guns it will take months (at the least) to pass in the face of the most powerful lobby in the US not to mention legal challenges. End result is anti-gun legislation will take years to move through the system. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make - gun bans take a long time, so only worry about it when it’s at the doorstep? Thanks, but no. Just as Democrats eschew advice from Republicans about what they should do to move their party forward, the same applies here. Yes anti-gun legislation takes time. Court battles take longer - the pro gun rights folks are better off if litigation is never needed. It may be necessary to scuttle what could potentially good legislation to avoid what could be potentially poor legislation. This is chess, not checkers. So maybe background checks would be great - but then we see efforts to increase the number of people that would be prohibited and those very databases used for the background checks expanded beyond the scope of the law. And that’s why universal background checks should be opposed. Repeat for every other anti gun effort, big or small. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/68 "2017-04-29T19:26:10Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make - gun bans take a long time, so only worry about it when it’s at the doorstep? I am suggesting the the gun industry loves stirring paranoia to boost sales. In the last 70 years how badly have gun rights been restricted? Sure there have been fiddly bits done but can you still buy a gun today despite all hand wringing about it? How much worse off are you today as a gun owner than you were 70 years ago? What can’t you do now that you could do then? Bottom line is until the 2nd Amendment is changed or the SCOTUS redefines it gun owners have been doing fine. I live in Chicago which has been one of the most gun un-friendly places in the country (law-wise) and if I want to go buy a gun I can still do it with little fuss. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/69 "2017-04-29T20:05:50Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am suggesting the the gun industry loves stirring paranoia to boost sales. > > In the last 70 years how badly have gun rights been restricted? > > Sure there have been fiddly bits done but can you still buy a gun today despite all hand wringing about it? > > How much worse off are you today as a gun owner than you were 70 years ago? What can’t you do now that you could do then? > > Bottom line is until the 2nd Amendment is changed or the SCOTUS redefines it gun owners have been doing fine. > > I live in Chicago which has been one of the most gun un-friendly places in the country (law-wise) and if I want to go buy a gun I can still do it with little fuss. Are we expanding past the Obama Administration then I guess. I agree the gun industry makes efforts to advertise, boost sales, stir advocacy, etc. If there wasn’t some truth to it, the message wouldn’t be persuasive among their target audience. In the last 70 years? So 1947? Machine guns no longer able to be purchased. No mail order firearms. Waiting periods. GFSZA. Ban open carry in CA, and other places. AWB. Magazine ban. Ammo bans. I mean, I’m not 70, so some of this stuff happened before my time. A couple years ago I wanted to purchase a new Gen 4 Glock pistol. Nothing fancy, just a new model - it came with 2 extra mags instead of just one. The grip was a little better. It is banned for sale in CA because it doesn’t contain non-existent magical technology. 100% of any new semi auto handguns are banned for sale in CA. The number of models of semi auto handguns available to purchase has been going down every year. So, what can’t I do? I can’t purchase the same pistol that is used at police departments all over the country because it doesn’t contain magic. I agree though, we’ve been moving towards a more permissive environment on a nationwide basis for a little while now. It’s a good start. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/70 "2017-04-29T20:09:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I live in Chicago which has been one of the most gun un-friendly places in the country (law-wise) and if I want to go buy a gun I can still do it with little fuss. Weren’t you not allowed to legally purchase a pistol (in Chicago) until _McDonald_? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/71 "2017-04-29T20:11:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I have to admit, I still don’t get why Obama himself is considered the key figure, except under the simplest interpretation. He had _some_ ability to create regulation through executive orders, and I guess he could decide how aggressive the BATFE and FBI were going to be in enforcing existing law, but the real power to gut the Second Amendment through legislation rests in the hands of congress. The President (and eventually, SCOTUS) can only stop them. Obama used the power of the bully pulpit to advocate for additional restrictions on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. He was largely unpersuasive, but that doesn’t mean the attempt wasn’t made. I don’t have a problem with Trump calling the whole of his and his fellow Democrat’s actions an “assault” on the Second Amendment. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/72 "2017-04-29T20:22:35Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > In the last 70 years? So 1947? Machine guns no longer able to be **purchased**. No mail order firearms. Waiting periods. GFSZA. Ban open carry in CA, and other places. AWB. Magazine ban. Ammo bans. I mean, I’m not 70, so some of this stuff happened before my time. That should say “manufactured”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/73 "2017-04-29T20:28:00Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t have a problem with Trump calling the whole of his and his fellow Democrat’s actions an “assault” on the Second Amendment. YMMV. And I don’t have a problem with you calling it an assault, except to note that it’s a broadening of the term to the point of uselessness based on the actions thus far attributed to Obama. Is there _any_ bully-pulpit statement a president could make about gun violence (assuming he wasn’t speaking in _favor_ of it) that is _not_ an assault on the second amendment, in your view? Would the example I gave of a president mildly decrying a school shooting count? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/74 "2017-04-29T20:31:38Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And I don’t have a problem with you calling it an assault, except to note that it’s a broadening of the term to the point of uselessness based on the actions thus far attributed to Obama. Is there _any_ bully-pulpit statement a president could make about gun violence (assuming he wasn’t speaking in _favor_ of it) that is _not_ an assault on the second amendment, in your view? Would the example I gave of a president mildly decrying a school shooting count? You’re the only one that is construing comments about a tragedy as an assault on the 2nd amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/75 "2017-04-29T20:44:33Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > You’re the only one that is construing comments about a tragedy as an assault on the 2nd amendment. You’re wrong - I’m asking the people who claim an assault has occurred if comments about tragedy count as assault, to try to find out how they’re defining the term. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/76 "2017-04-29T20:44:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Is there _any_ bully-pulpit statement a president could make about gun violence (assuming he wasn’t speaking in _favor_ of it) that is _not_ an assault on the second amendment, in your view? Would the example I gave of a president mildly decrying a school shooting count? Yes, yes, and [here is another example](https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070417-1.html). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/77 "2017-04-29T21:09:48Z")
Cool. We have a dividing line. That was Bush43 about Virginia Tech, though. What about Obama and Sandy Hook? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/78 "2017-04-29T21:10:40Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > No. If you are prohibited from purchase, you are prohibited from possession. The actual text of the Gun Control Act says “possess in or affecting commerce”; has the Supreme Court considered this clause post-_United States v. Lopez_ (which ruled that possession of a gun in a school zone didn’t fall under the commerce clause)? > [@Bone](#): > > Inclusion in NICS absolutely prohibits possession. Most states don’t (though some do) have a mechanism to seize firearms from people who become prohibited, but inclusion in NICS does in fact prohibit possession. No, inclusion in NICS means you don’t pass the instant background check. NICS also contains the names of people with potentially disqualifying conditions, which results in a ‘delay’ response, but might result in approval a few hours later. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/79 "2017-04-29T21:38:47Z")
I’m not following what you are saying. Are you saying that a person can be prohibited from purchasing but be perfectly legal to possess? That seems like no. If you’re say g that people get flagged by NICS but later are allowed to purchase, those people aren’t who I’m talking about. I’m using “included in NICS” as equivalent to being prohibited. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/80 "2017-04-29T22:24:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Cool. We have a dividing line. That was Bush43 about Virginia Tech, though. What about Obama and Sandy Hook? I had to go and look it up. [Here is what I found](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhxjS1FO33c): > [@](#): > > This afternoon, I spoke with Governor Malloy and FBI Director Mueller. I offered Governor Malloy my condolences on behalf of the nation, and made it clear he will have every single resource that he needs to investigate this heinous crime, care for the victims, counsel their families. > > We’ve endured too many of these tragedies in the past few years. And each time I learn the news I react not as a President, but as anybody else would – as a parent. And that was especially true today. I know there’s not a parent in America who doesn’t feel the same overwhelming grief that I do. > > The majority of those who died today were children – beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old. They had their entire lives ahead of them – birthdays, graduations, weddings, kids of their own. Among the fallen were also teachers – men and women who devoted their lives to helping our children fulfill their dreams. > > So our hearts are broken today – for the parents and grandparents, sisters and brothers of these little children, and for the families of the adults who were lost. Our hearts are broken for the parents of the survivors as well, for as blessed as they are to have their children home tonight, they know that their children’s innocence has been torn away from them too early, and there are no words that will ease their pain. > > As a country, we have been through this too many times. Whether it’s an elementary school in Newtown, or a shopping mall in Oregon, or a temple in Wisconsin, or a movie theater in Aurora, or a street corner in Chicago – these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods, and these children are our children. And we’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics. > > This evening, Michelle and I will do what I know every parent in America will do, which is hug our children a little tighter and we’ll tell them that we love them, and we’ll remind each other how deeply we love one another. But there are families in Connecticut who cannot do that tonight. And they need all of us right now. In the hard days to come, that community needs us to be at our best as Americans. And I will do everything in my power as President to help. > > Because while nothing can fill the space of a lost child or loved one, all of us can extend a hand to those in need – to remind them that we are there for them, that we are praying for them, that the love they felt for those they lost endures not just in their memories but also in ours. > > May God bless the memory of the victims and, in the words of Scripture, heal the brokenhearted and bind up their wounds. I wouldn’t call anything in that statement “assault”-like. Even the “we’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics” line is vague enough that it’s hard to get riled up about, especially in the wake of such a tragedy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460.md?page=5)