# What comprises Trump's "eight-year assault on your Second Amendment freedoms"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460 "2017-04-28T22:53:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/101 "2017-04-30T23:13:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, I’m agreeing that, as I already stated, “Our political discussions are full of rhetorical flourishes and hyperbole, on both sides of the aisle.” Frankly, the facts of what Trump and Obama are doing is far more important than some random opinions on political discourse. You’re the one who brought up comparisons to the “war on science.” I would think that you’d have some thoughts as to whether the war on science has more substance than Obama’s so-called [war on guns.](https://www.gunowners.org/01052016.htm) So, once again, surely you agree that Trump is actually trying to pass laws to drastically reduce scientific programs, whereas the substance to Obama’s alleged anti-gun policies amounts to a few dead-end legislative proposals after mass shootings, several more regulatory actions that really have minimal to no impact on gun ownership, and criticism that Obama just didn’t say the things you wanted him to? (It’s funny, an interesting parallel between the so-called “special snowflake social justice warriors” and certain pro-gun views just occurred to me. The protests of each of those two groups seem increasingly obsessed with micro-aggressions rather than actual aggressions. When we are discussing Obama’s anti-gun actions (regardless of his personal opinions) and one of the major points of evidence is that he wanted companies to report guns lost in shipment, we’re clearly into micro-aggression territory.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/102 "2017-04-30T23:26:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > compromises that would expand gun rights if he thought it would reduce gun violence. For instance? Cites too, please. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/103 "2017-05-01T00:01:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > … > I think Obama has an instinctive aversion to guns that comes from being raised in a gun free bubble his entire life … ??? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/104 "2017-05-01T00:05:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Frankly, the facts of what Trump and Obama are doing is far more important than some random opinions on political discourse. You’re the one who brought up comparisons to the “war on science.” I would think that you’d have some thoughts as to whether the war on science has more substance than Obama’s so-called [war on guns.](https://www.gunowners.org/01052016.htm) > > So, once again, surely you agree that Trump is actually trying to pass laws to drastically reduce scientific programs, whereas the substance to Obama’s alleged anti-gun policies amounts to a few dead-end legislative proposals after mass shootings, several more regulatory actions that really have minimal to no impact on gun ownership, and criticism that Obama just didn’t say the things you wanted him to? No, I don’t agree with the characterization of “several more regulatory actions that really have minimal to no impact on gun ownership”. The green-tip ban and rep-payee issues were significant and substantial in my eyes. > [@Ravenman](#): > > (It’s funny, an interesting parallel between the so-called “special snowflake social justice warriors” and certain pro-gun views just occurred to me. The protests of each of those two groups seem increasingly obsessed with micro-aggressions rather than actual aggressions. When we are discussing Obama’s anti-gun actions (regardless of his personal opinions) and one of the major points of evidence is that he wanted companies to report guns lost in shipment, we’re clearly into micro-aggression territory.) It wasn’t a “major” point. It was just one of several examples of the E.O.s that I was asked about. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/105 "2017-05-01T00:23:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The green-tip ban and rep-payee issues were significant and substantial in my eyes. Restrictions on armor-piercing bullets and fraudulent transactions are significant and substantial infringements on your rights. Got it. Can you think of any other rights held by anyone else that might have been strengthened? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/106 "2017-05-01T00:37:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, I don’t agree with the characterization of “several more regulatory actions that really have minimal to no impact on gun ownership”. The green-tip ban and rep-payee issues were significant and substantial in my eyes. Sure, like how some people get riled up about the significant and substantial issue of mispronouncing the term “cis” as in “cis gendered.” It’s a big, big deal to some people!! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/107 "2017-05-01T02:00:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … rep-payee issues were significant and substantial in my eyes. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … fraudulent transactions are significant and substantial infringements on your rights. Got it. Do you know what “rep-payee” refers to? Because from your post it appears that you do not. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/108 "2017-05-01T02:08:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The OP is about Obama’s “assault” on gun rights but yeah…let’s expand it. Why not? > > What could you buy in 1947 that you cannot buy today (as regards guns)? > > By this I mean laws that prevent you from buying something, not some discontinued firearm for profit reasons. > > If you do not want to expand it then tell me what firearm you could buy in 2007 that you cannot buy today because Obama made it illegal or impossible to buy. Well, I could buy a bucket of 1000 rounds of .22 lr in 2007 for $30. I can no longer do that. Thanks to all the demand created by the gun industry’s greatest salesman, Obama, its closer to $100 now. I remember when having 10,000 rounds in your house meant you were David Koresh. Now you’re just prepared. Thanks Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/109 "2017-05-01T02:18:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Where did you get that idea? Natural rights are sometimes based on need. Maybe that’s what he is talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Anita\_Dayoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Anita\_Dayoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anita_Dayoff)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/110 "2017-05-01T03:33:40Z")
The ATF Operation Fast and Furious bought guns to be smuggled into Mexico so crimes would be committed in order to gin up opinions against guns in America. One of the guns was used to kill Government agent Brian Terry. > **[ATF gunwalking scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal)** > > Gunwalking, or "letting guns walk", was a tactic used by the Arizona U.S. Attorney's Office and the Arizona Field Office of the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which ran a series of sting operations between 2006 and 2011 in the Tucson and Phoenix area where the ATF "purposely allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal straw buyers, hoping to track the guns to Mexican drug cartel leaders and arrest them". These operations The stated goa... It was a sneaky, stupid Government initiated disinformation campaign. Following the discovery of that scam by a guy named Mike Vanderboegh the ATF issued a demand letter regarding the reporting of multiple long gun sales. After they were exposed to Congress they backed off and required reporting only by border state dealers. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/111 "2017-05-01T11:55:38Z")
> [@Anita\_Dayoff](#): > > The ATF Operation Fast and Furious bought guns to be smuggled into Mexico so crimes would be committed in order to gin up opinions against guns in America. Your link does not support the claim that the motive for the program was “… so crimes would be committed in order to gin up opinions against guns in America.” What’s the evidence for that claim? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/112 "2017-05-01T15:12:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Sure, like how some people get riled up about the significant and substantial issue of mispronouncing the term “cis” as in “cis gendered.” It’s a big, big deal to some people!! Let’s try to quantify the impact. You said, “several more regulatory actions that really have minimal to no impact on gun ownership.” Do you know how many people lost their rights to purchase / own firearms because of the Social Security representative-payee rule? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/113 "2017-05-01T15:24:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Let’s try to quantify the impact. You said, “several more regulatory actions that really have minimal to no impact on gun ownership.” Do you know how many people lost their rights to purchase / own firearms because of the Social Security representative-payee rule? No, I don’t. How many persons had their gun ownership cancelled or their guns confiscated under this rule? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/114 "2017-05-01T15:41:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Let’s try to quantify the impact. You said, “several more regulatory actions that really have minimal to no impact on gun ownership.” Do you know how many people lost their rights to purchase / own firearms because of the Social Security representative-payee rule? I anxiously await the answer. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/115 "2017-05-01T15:44:05Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > No, I don’t. > > How many persons had their gun ownership cancelled or their guns confiscated under this rule? Fortunately, it didn’t take effect until January 18th, and Congress repealed it in the middle of February. The rule had called for compliance by December 19th, and given the pace of government work, I suspect they didn’t get too far along in implementing it before it got repealed. So, to answer your question, none that I’m aware of, because the Republican Congress and President Trump acted swiftly to undo the action. If they had not, an estimated 75,000 people stood to lose their right to keep and bear arms. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/116 "2017-05-01T15:56:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So, to answer your question, none that I’m aware of, because the Republican Congress and President Trump acted swiftly to undo the action. If they had not, an estimated 75,000 people stood to lose their right to keep and bear arms. How many people who are judged to be incapable of taking care of their own affairs have bought firearms in previous years? I would assume that it is a very small percentage of the overall class, but I await your rebuttal showing how many gun purchases would likely have been impacted, and how that number differs from my statement concerning “minimal to no impact on gun ownership.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/117 "2017-05-01T16:01:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > How many people who are judged to be incapable of taking care of their own affairs have bought firearms in previous years? I would assume that it is a very small percentage of the overall class, but I await your rebuttal showing how many gun purchases would likely have been impacted, and how that number differs from my statement concerning “minimal to no impact on gun ownership.” It’s not just new gun purchases. It’s any gun ownership by the affected individuals. Do you understand that? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/118 "2017-05-01T16:09:13Z")
But we have no stats on how many current gun owners would have been affected? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/119 "2017-05-01T16:11:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not just new gun purchases. It’s any gun ownership by the affected individuals. Do you understand that? Look, I’m trying to ask you questions to draw out how big a deal this is. You say it is a big deal. Saying that 75,000 people COULD be impacted doesn’t tell the story of how many would be REASONABLY EXPECTED to be impacted. This absurd exchange started when I challenged your examples of Obama’s assault on gun ownership, and I said that I doubted that the regulations would have anything but a minimal to no impact to gun ownership. Now you’re just nitpicking the questions I’m asking to draw out your conclusion that it is a big deal. If there’s something like 45 million households with guns today, and this rule were implemented only to see that 44.98 million (or whatever) households had guns afterwards, then having gun ownership affected by less than one-half of one percent is pretty clearly a “minimal” impact. ETA: And by the way – as a serious question – wouldn’t the gun ownership simply pass to the executor (or whatever the proper term is) of the person’s affairs? Like if grandpa isn’t allowed to drive anymore, odds are that the caretaker gets the car, right? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/120 "2017-05-01T16:15:30Z")
Do we have any idea how many of those 75,000 persons are currently gun owners or would be considering a purchase in the foreseeable future? Or did I miss something and the 75,000 figure are the gun owning subset of the rep-payees? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460.md?page=7)