# What comprises Trump's "eight-year assault on your Second Amendment freedoms"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460 "2017-04-28T22:53:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/121 "2017-05-01T16:40:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > ETA: And by the way – as a serious question – wouldn’t the gun ownership simply pass to the executor (or whatever the proper term is) of the person’s affairs? Like if grandpa isn’t allowed to drive anymore, odds are that the caretaker gets the car, right? No - ownership of firearms wouldn’t transfer that way. It would be considered property of the estate if the person has died, and the executor would need to follow the state and federal transfer laws to transfer the firearms to the beneficiaries. Going through an FFL is the safest bet to ensure all laws are followed. In the case of a person becoming prohibited, depending on the nature of the prohibition the person would have some limited time to surrender possession of the firearms through gift, sale, surrendering to police, destruction, etc. A caretaker could take possession, but would not be the owner. If in the same house, multiple people could be considered to be in possession. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/122 "2017-05-01T16:46:29Z")
Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/123 "2017-05-01T16:54:05Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Do we have any idea how many of those 75,000 persons are currently gun owners or would be considering a purchase in the foreseeable future? Or did I miss something and the 75,000 figure are the gun owning subset of the rep-payees? Nothing firm. Anything would be just a guess based on general statistics around gun ownership, but we couldn’t really be certain that those general stats are indicative of the subset of people that are affected by this rule. In general, something like 35-40% of households own guns. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/124 "2017-05-01T17:38:39Z")
BTW, reading back through this thread, I realized that I omitted something that’s probably important. My post #115 should have included the word “per year” at the end. [Here](https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2016/01/04/fact-sheet-new-executive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our) is the Obama administration’s fact sheet on the rule: > [@](#): > > The reporting that SSA, in consultation with the Department of Justice, is expected to require will cover appropriate records of the approximately 75,000 people each year … ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/125 "2017-05-01T18:10:20Z")
> [@Anita\_Dayoff](#): > > The ATF Operation Fast and Furious bought guns to be smuggled into Mexico so crimes would be committed in order to gin up opinions against guns in America. > One of the guns was used to kill Government agent Brian Terry. > [ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal) > > It was a sneaky, stupid Government initiated disinformation campaign. > Following the discovery of that scam by a guy named Mike Vanderboegh the ATF issued a demand letter regarding the reporting of multiple long gun sales. After they were exposed to Congress they backed off and required reporting only by border state dealers. Yes, and a similar program started under GW Bush. however, “so crimes would be committed in order to gin up opinions against guns in America.” is unsupported by the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/126 "2017-05-01T19:25:00Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > BTW, reading back through this thread, I realized that I omitted something that’s probably important. My post #115 should have included the word “per year” at the end. That’s a good point, and we also shouldn’t infer that, say, 225,000 would be affected by the end of three years. Some percentage of these individuals would be expected to pass away, like if an indidivudal was dealing with dementia due to old age. It is reasonable to think that some would have been judged possible to resume taking care of their own affairs if they were suffering from a temporary incapacity, as the rulemaking proposed a mechanism to do so: > [@](#): > > The reporting that SSA, in consultation with the Department of Justice, is expected to require will cover appropriate records of the approximately 75,000 people each year who have a documented mental health issue, receive disability benefits, and are unable to manage those benefits because of their mental impairment, or who have been found by a state or federal court to be legally incompetent. **The rulemaking will also provide a mechanism for people to seek relief from the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm for reasons related to mental health.** ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/127 "2017-05-01T21:34:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Some percentage of these individuals would be expected to pass away, like if an indidivudal was dealing with dementia due to old age. Yes, but [the final rule](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/12/19/2016-30407/implementation-of-the-nics-improvement-amendments-act-of-2007) applied only to individuals 18-65 years of age (which is why it was 10’s of thousands rather than millions of individuals), so that percentage would have been relatively small, at least in the first few years after being prohibited. > [@](#): > > … attained age 18, but have not yet attained full retirement age … ---
**Author:** ![Doubticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Doubticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/128 "2017-05-01T22:35:55Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I am not allowed to obtain a CCW in my home state. More like a lifelong problem though. > > New assault weapons bans > Ammo background check > SAFE act in NY > 100% of new model semi auto pistols banned in CA from purchase through FFL > > Want more? > > Of course, if you don’t think these are 2nd amendment issues then okay. I agree that these seem like restrictions on your 2nd amendment rights. But these are all state laws, correct? As such, how does this apply to the 8 years of the Obama presidency as alluded by Trump? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/129 "2017-05-01T22:49:33Z")
> [@Doubticus](#): > > I agree that these seem like restrictions on your 2nd amendment rights. But these are all state laws, correct? As such, how does this apply to the 8 years of the Obama presidency as alluded by Trump? The assault weapons ban was pretty clearly an Obama effort, at the federal level. Here are a couple of examples: [January 2013 - Obama calls for assault-weapons ban, background checks](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/01/16/obama-gun-violence-plan-assault-weapons-ban-background-checks/1837793/) [June 2016 - Obama calls for ban on assault weapons in weekly address](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/283970-president-obama-calls-for-ban-on-assault-weapons-in-weekly) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/130 "2017-05-01T23:03:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The assault weapons ban was pretty clearly an Obama effort, at the federal level. Here are a couple of examples: > > [January 2013 - Obama calls for assault-weapons ban, background checks](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/01/16/obama-gun-violence-plan-assault-weapons-ban-background-checks/1837793/) > > [June 2016 - Obama calls for ban on assault weapons in weekly address](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/283970-president-obama-calls-for-ban-on-assault-weapons-in-weekly) Every time there was a school shooting with such a weapon there were calls for such. > **[Federal Assault Weapons Ban](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban)** > > The Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, popularly known as the Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB or FAWB), was a subsection of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a United States federal law which included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms that were defined as assault weapons as well as certain ammunition magazines that were defined as large capacity. > The 10-year ban was passed by the U.S. Congress... And in fact Trump was in favor of such a ban. So yeah, it’s stupid, but it’s also popular and goes back long before Obama. So far, no one really has come up with anything that even close close to a Obama “eight year assault”. A few minor thing- all pretty useless and stupid i agree. And yes, some states, CA being the leader, have continued their \*decades long \* nibbling at the 2nd Ad. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/131 "2017-05-01T23:16:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The assault weapons ban was pretty clearly an Obama effort, at the federal level. Does public advocacy through the form of a few speeches (words) advocating for a particular law equate to an assault? If so, then Trump’s public advocacy through a few speeches of expanding libel laws to more easily sue media outlets over stories he does not like must then be an assault on the First Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/132 "2017-05-02T00:05:09Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > Does public advocacy through the form of a few speeches (words) advocating for a particular law equate to an assault? If so, then Trump’s public advocacy through a few speeches of expanding libel laws to more easily sue media outlets over stories he does not like must then be an assault on the First Amendment. Recently DNC Chairman Tom Perez made a statement that garnered him some headlines. He said: > [@](#): > > “At a time when women’s rights are under **assault** from the White House, the Republican Congress, and in states across the country,” he added, “we must speak up for this principle as loudly as ever and with one voice.” [source](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democrats-tom-perez-abortion-rights_us_58fa5fade4b018a9ce5b351d) I suspect if I looked I could find people claiming there was an assault on the First Amendment too. What’s your point though? ETA: [here is one from the NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/opinion/dont-expect-the-first-amendment-to-protect-the-media.html): > [@](#): > > … Mr. Trump’s assault on the press ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/133 "2017-05-02T02:17:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yes, I did, and I don’t wish to imply I want to move the goalposts. I’m just mildly surprised by how tepid an “assault” it was. As it was already explained, Obama’s desires were tempered by Congress. And that’s the difference between destruction of the Second Amendment and an assault on it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/134 "2017-05-02T16:23:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > As it was already explained, Obama’s desires were tempered by Congress. And that’s the difference between destruction of the Second Amendment and an assault on it. Again, you say "Obama’ while a whole host of leaders pushed for Assault weapon bans of some sort- _including Trump himself._ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/135 "2017-05-02T16:37:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > As it was already explained, Obama’s desires were tempered by Congress. And that’s the difference between destruction of the Second Amendment and an assault on it. Even if Obama had gotten everything he wanted, I’m still not feeling the “assault” (though I suppose in that case, it moves on to “battery”), but of course that’s personal opinion about the importance of the Second Amendment and where its reasonable limitations are, as all amendments have them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/136 "2017-05-02T17:02:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Even if Obama had gotten everything he wanted, I’m still not feeling the “assault” (though I suppose in that case, it moves on to “battery”), but of course that’s personal opinion about the importance of the Second Amendment and where its reasonable limitations are, as all amendments have them. Are you “feeling” the assault on the press, or the war on science, or the war on women? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/137 "2017-05-02T17:20:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Are you “feeling” the assault on the press, or the war on science, or the war on women? Those are off-topic, so I hadn’t thought about them within the context of commenting in this thread, and am not likely to start any time soon. If I’ve already commented along those lines in this thread, I’ve forgotten about it. Personally, I like laws to have purpose, so if there’s an “assault” (if one wishes to call it such) and 1% of the U.S. population can’t get guns, there better be at least a 2% drop in gun violence or what was the point? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/138 "2017-05-02T18:19:45Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Personally, I like laws to have purpose, so if there’s an “assault” (if one wishes to call it such) and 1% of the U.S. population can’t get guns, there better be at least a 2% drop in gun violence or what was the point? What if there’s a 5% drop in people’s fear of gun violence with no actual drop in violence, is that sufficient? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/139 "2017-05-02T20:30:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Personally, I like laws to have purpose, so if there’s an “assault” (if one wishes to call it such) and 1% of the U.S. population can’t get guns, there better be at least a 2% drop in gun violence or what was the point? At a minimum, I appreciate your desire for actual results, not just feel-good measures. Too often I feel like liberals pursue gun control measures without any actual thought to the real-world effects of the proposal. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460/140 "2017-05-02T20:37:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Too often I feel like liberals pursue gun control measures without any actual thought to the real-world effects of the proposal. To be blunt, the pro-gun side makes any reforms to gun laws whatsoever a binary problem: if the law actually does anything, it is unacceptable because it has real world effects. If it doesn’t do anything, then it is pointless and we should just enforce the laws we have. My friends on the liberal side have decided that fighting the first fight is totally pointless because it cannot be won; so they fight the second fight which might be won but is largely pointless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-comprises-trumps-eight-year-assault-on-your-second-amendment-freedoms/785460.md?page=8)