# What computer icon most needs reworking? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 20, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260 "2022-07-20T12:39:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/81 "2022-07-25T17:13:39Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Weird thing is, I’m actually somewhat interested in calligraphy — has a set when I was a teenager — but I’ve never had a calligraphy video show up in my FB or YouTube or any other feeds. That may just be targeted towards you. > > The closest I’ve seen to that is a guy who does ambigram videos, and he uses a flat tipped marker, not a fountain pen with a calligraphy nib. > > I haven’t been in the market for one, but I’d guess you can still buy fountain pens at, I dunno, maybe Michael’s and Blikk? In the early 2000s I remember just buying them at some regular drug store or Target. Any decent stationery store should have some utilitarian fountain pens (think Lamy Safari), but those are not suitable for and have nothing to do with calligraphy which, you may recall, was taught using dip pens (at least once upon a time). Art supply stores may have stuff like the Rotring ArtPen. My claim was merely that anything pointy drawing a line will be recognized as symbolizing writing, though, mind you, I have not gathered actual evidence for that. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/82 "2022-07-25T17:32:26Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > are not suitable for and have nothing to do with calligraphy which, you may recall, was taught using dip pens (at least once upon a time). The calligraphy pens I had in the late 80s (purchased from Venture, a K-Mart-style department store) had interchangeable cartridges. They came with a number of nibs at various widths, and a selection of various colored inks. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a proper dip pen of any kind. I feel like there may have been a renewed interest in calligraphy at the time, as there also was a local PBS station, WYCC (Channel 20), which was associated with the city colleges of Chicago (community colleges) that had programming that included calligraphy. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/83 "2022-07-25T17:41:14Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a proper dip pen of any kind. I remember seeing some at a craft show ages ago. They were made of glass. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/84 "2022-07-25T18:04:38Z")
I think I remember as a kid having one of those pens that you suck ink into with a lever. Which used to be used to squirt people with in movies/TV, and are now obscure enough that that no longer happens. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/85 "2022-07-25T19:59:38Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Any decent stationery store should have some utilitarian fountain pens (think Lamy Safari), but those are not suitable for and have nothing to do with calligraphy which, you may recall, was taught using dip pens (at least once upon a time). Art supply stores may have stuff like the Rotring ArtPen. Although stationery stores are kind of hard to find these days. I’ve bought all of my fountain pens online, but I do know of one place that had pens, inks, and notebooks suitable for fountain pen ink in South Buckhead in Atlanta (though now I see it’s closed and some internet company has bought the space… alas) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/86 "2022-07-25T21:41:33Z")
Since we are on the subject, are children in elementary school today given any exposure to calligraphy at all? Even if it is just one period of one day of class copying some “blackletter” samples out of a book and they never hear about it again? If so, what do they use to write with? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/87 "2022-07-25T21:43:19Z")
Today? I wasn’t exposed to it in elementary school in the 80s. I’m not even sure we were allowed to use a ballpoint pen in elementary school. Maybe in 7th and 8th grade. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/88 "2022-07-25T21:50:34Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Since we are on the subject, are children in elementary school today given any exposure to calligraphy at all? Dunno about today, but I vaguely recall (in the 80s) doing a small amount of calligraphy using a disposable chisel-shaped felt-tip pen. Certainly no fountain pens. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/89 "2022-07-25T21:53:58Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I wasn’t exposed to it in elementary school in the 80s. I’m not even sure we were allowed to use a ballpoint pen in elementary school. So what DID you use? Pencils? Markers? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/90 "2022-07-25T22:03:33Z")
Yes, pencils. Because you can erase them. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/91 "2022-07-25T22:07:38Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Dunno about today, but I vaguely recall (in the 80s) doing a small amount of calligraphy using a disposable chisel-shaped felt-tip pen. Certainly no fountain pens. I remember those (I thought I had referred to them in my previous post, but I guess it didn’t survive my edit.) Those I remember seeing in the stationery section of the local discount department store. I don’t recall ever using them in school, though, and I suspect I was one of the only kids – if not the only one – interested in calligraphy enough in my class to buy them. It’s not something I knew anybody else to do. Funny enough, my handwriting sucks, but my calligraphy was passable. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/92 "2022-07-25T22:09:48Z")
I do remember, when I was a kid, either I or my sister had a set of Crayola “calligraphy markers”, with variously-shaped tips… ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/93 "2022-07-25T22:09:51Z")
You can erase many pens, too: kids certainly had white-out, ink eradicator, erasable ink pens, and/or, yes, pencils. Don’t remember exactly what proportion of each turned up in elementary school. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/94 "2022-07-25T22:14:52Z")
Those erasable ink pens – at least as I remember them in the 80s – did not work particularly well. Like I said, we may have been allowed to use pen in 7th grade, but not before, to my recollection. I do remember white-out in high school (not in elementary), and I don’t know what an ink eradicator is. It was #2 pencils and wide-rule lined paper through at least 6th grade. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/95 "2022-07-25T22:18:19Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Funny enough, my handwriting sucks, but my calligraphy was passable. I was the same way with drafting lettering. It was really just a matter of slowing down a bit. My usual handwriting is a perfectly serviceable print lettering. It just gets a little distorted when I’m writing quickly. Slow down and my letter shapes are fine. > [@pulykamell](#): > > Those erasable ink pens – at least as I remember them in the 80s – did not work particularly well. For left-handers especially. They never seemed to really dry, at least not fast enough that they wouldn’t smudge on my hand. Worse than pencils in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/96 "2022-07-25T22:35:18Z")
There were two sorts of “erasable pen”. One had erasers much like pencil erasers, but used a different sort of ink (that, yes, was more prone to smudging). The other used normal ink, but had abrasive material embedded in the eraser, that would scratch away the top layer of the paper. They don’t make those abrasive erasers any more, and I miss them. Not for erasing ink, but because they were the perfect tool for cleaning off corroded electrical contacts. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/97 "2022-07-25T22:43:43Z")
The “ink eradicator” I am familiar with are these Pelikan ones that look like a double-tipped marker: > **[Ink eraser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ink_eraser)** > > An ink eraser is an instrument used to scrape away or chemically bleach ink from a writing surface. This is a more involved process than removing pencil markings. Pencil marks can be gradually adhered to natural rubber fragments by rubbing the mark with a pencil eraser (this action is what prompted Joseph Priestly to give solidified latex its common name.) Ink, however readily penetrates the fibers of most papers and is therefore more difficult to extract by mechanical action. > Older ink erasers... They worked like magic if your ink was compatible, otherwise it had no effect. I never liked the smudgy erasable ball-point pens. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/98 "2022-07-25T23:05:02Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I wasn’t exposed to it in elementary school in the 80s. I’m not even sure we were allowed to use a ballpoint pen in elementary school. That seems odd. The school gave us pencils, because they are cheap, but i don’t recall any restriction on using pens. And we used both crayons and magic markers for art. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/99 "2022-07-25T23:34:02Z")
Yep. We were expressly forbidden. We used all sorts of media for art, though. (We also didn’t get any pencils from school – we were supposed to supply it ourselves. ETA: Sorry – one exception. For some tests we were given #1 [not #2] extra-soft pencils.) Here’s a thread I quickly found where a poster says they were not allowed to use pens until 5th grade, and only then for final drafts. In junior high they were allowed to use pens: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAmerican/comments/rl7ijv/do\_students\_at\_primary\_school\_in\_the\_us\_all\_use/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAmerican/comments/rl7ijv/do_students_at_primary_school_in_the_us_all_use/) > I used wood pencils until 3rd grade then switched over to mechanical pencils. We weren’t allowed to use ballpoint pens until 5th grade. Even then only for final drafts. In junior high and beyond we could use whatever we wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260/100 "2022-07-25T23:47:33Z")
I use a fountain pen every day. Can’t tell you the last time I used a 3.5" floppy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-computer-icon-most-needs-reworking/968260.md?page=6)