# What "Conservative Values" aren't based on bigotry? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 16, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176 "2019-07-16T16:36:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/441 "2019-07-20T21:06:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Seriously, Scylla, are you listening to the things you’re saying? > > The Republicans picked a Democrat as their nominee because they knew Democrats are rapists so they figured that would win them the election. > > Do you see how crazy that sounds? No. The rapey thing just goes along with being a Democrat all your life, right? That is Andy’s logic. We are understanding the philosophy by looking at the traits of those who follow it. Clinton, and Trump, and Cosby, and Weinstein, JFK… they were all womanizers and/or rapists… and prominent Democrats at the time. Therefore the Democratic philosophy must be Mysoginistic and rapey. But seriously, Bannon was enamored with the Democrat Trump, because he thought he could fight dirty like a Democrat: lie with straight face, go for the jugular, make shit up about his enemies to try to get them to deny it. He thought the honest statesmen Schick couldn’t Win against the Democrat sleaze, so he told to Trump exactly what he would need to say and espouse to run for President as a Republican. It’s right there in the first chapter or two of Woodward’s book. I believe he even has quotes from those meetings. Trump was literally a Clinton style Democrat that Brannon recruited to be a Republican (they kind of recruited each other.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/442 "2019-07-20T21:10:40Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > No. The rapey thing just goes along with being a Democrat all your life, right? That is Andy’s logic. We are understanding the philosophy by looking at the traits of those who follow it. Clinton, and Trump, and Cosby, and Weinstein, JFK… they were all womanizers and/or rapists… and prominent Democrats at the time. Therefore the Democratic philosophy must be Mysoginistic and rapey. > > But seriously, Bannon was enamored with the Democrat Trump, because he thought he could fight dirty like a Democrat: lie with straight face, go for the jugular, make shit up about his enemies to try to get them to deny it. He thought the honest statesmen Schick couldn’t Win against the Democrat sleaze, so he told to Trump exactly what he would need to say and espouse to run for President as a Republican. It’s right there in the first chapter or two of Woodward’s book. I believe he even has quotes from those meetings. > > Trump was literally a Clinton style Democrat that Brannon recruited to be a Republican (they kind of recruited each other.) Wow. The lengths some will go, twisting beyond any possible reason or logic (not to mention misrepresentation of what other posters, like me, have said), just to avoid even the possibility of admitting that their “side” might bear some small bit of responsibility for something reprehensible like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/443 "2019-07-20T21:22:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Wow. The lengths some will go, twisting beyond any possible reason or logic (not to mention misrepresentation of what other posters, like me, have said), just to avoid even the possibility of admitting that their “side” might bear some small bit of responsibility for something reprehensible like Trump. I know. Crazy. Woodward is such a rabid right winger. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/444 "2019-07-20T21:29:52Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I know. Crazy. Woodward is such a rabid right winger. I certainly wouldn’t consider Woodward a left winger. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/445 "2019-07-20T21:32:42Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I certainly wouldn’t consider Woodward a left winger. I certainly wouldn’t consider Woodward the person **iiandyiiii** was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/446 "2019-07-20T21:32:44Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I know. Crazy. Woodward is such a rabid right winger. Whatever you’re going on about, it doesn’t respond to my actual words. Just some indecipherable weirdness. It really shouldn’t be that impossible to accept that those Republicans who voted for him and continue to support him are responsible for electing and continuing to support Trump. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/447 "2019-07-20T21:38:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Wow. The lengths some will go, twisting beyond any possible reason or logic (not to mention misrepresentation of what other posters, like me, have said), just to avoid even the possibility of admitting that their “side” might bear some small bit of responsibility for something reprehensible like Trump. I confess that I was initially taken aback by Scylla’s post(s) as well, but when you think about it a little more, Trump actually is kinda like an old fashioned centrist Democrat. Democrats historically support policies that are more protectionist. Trump lied his ass off throughout the entire Republican primary and, despite vowing to tear up Obamacare, he was one of the few - maybe the only Republican - who said that his plan would cover everyone. It was bullshit, but that’s beside the point. He was also an anti-war president, again bucking Republican orthodoxy. Trump actually pushed his Republican opposition aside using some Democrat themes. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/448 "2019-07-20T21:41:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whatever you’re going on about, it doesn’t respond to my actual words. Just some indecipherable weirdness. It really shouldn’t be that impossible to accept that those Republicans who voted for him and continue to support him are responsible for electing and continuing to support Trump. I’m sorry it went over your head. Clearly they are responsible for electing him, yes. I didn’t vote for him last time. I think I will this time. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/449 "2019-07-20T21:43:19Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m sorry it went over your head. > > Clearly they are responsible for electing him, yes. I didn’t vote for him last time. I think I will this time. Then you will be partially responsible for him and anything he does should he be re-elected. But I have a feeling you have some sort of attachment towards blaming your own actions on Democrats and progressives, based on these posts and past discussions we’ve had. Your actions are your own, and no one else is responsible. If you support an abuser of women, that’s on you, not on anyone else. No one is forcing you to vote for misogyny, bigotry, and hatefulness. That’s a choice that you appear to want to make. I hope you’ll change your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/450 "2019-07-20T21:51:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then you will be partially responsible for him and anything he does should he be re-elected. But I have a feeling you have some sort of attachment towards blaming your own actions on Democrats and progressives, based on these posts and past discussions we’ve had. > > Your actions are your own, and no one else is responsible. If you support an abuser of women, that’s on you, not on anyone else. No one is forcing you to vote for misogyny, bigotry, and hatefulness. That’s a choice that you appear to want to make. I hope you’ll change your mind. Oh, there is no blame on Democrats, none at all. From our discussions i’m positive you have no read on my thinking, whatsoever. I’m not voting for a person. I’m voting for what I think will happen if he stays in office versus what I think will happen if we let one of the lunatic lefties in. All Democrats needed to do to retain my vote from the last two elections was not to go absolutely batshit crazy. In fact, I think that’s all they needed to do to win in a landslide. But Trump will win, because the Democrats have gone insane. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/451 "2019-07-20T21:59:03Z")
Getting back to the OP, the OP asked what conservative values are not based on bigotry. Some, like drilling for more oil, low taxes, high defense spending, have nothing to do with bigotry whatsoever. Should we discuss those? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/452 "2019-07-20T22:03:30Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I know. Crazy. Woodward is such a rabid right winger. Seems to me that one has read Woodward and still managed to miss a lot. Oh and BTW, Trump’s insanity was reported by Kelly and Mattis already. > **[Trump White House rankled by Watergate reporter Bob Woodward's tell-all book](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-white-house-rankled-by-watergate-reporter-bob-woodwards-tell-all-book)** > > The book is the latest to throw the Trump administration into damage-control mode with explosive anecdotes and concerns about the commander in chief. > [@](#): > > The publication of Woodward’s book has been anticipated for weeks, and current and former White House officials estimate that nearly all their colleagues cooperated with the famed Watergate journalist. The White House, in a statement from press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, on Tuesday dismissed the book as “nothing more than fabricated stories, many by former disgruntled employees, told to make the President look bad.” > > The book quotes chief of staff John Kelly as having doubts about Trump’s mental faculties, declaring during one meeting, “We’re in Crazytown.” It also says he called Trump an “idiot,” an account that Kelly denied. > > “The idea I ever called the President an idiot is not true,” Kelly said in a statement Tuesday. > > The book says that Trump’s former lawyer in the Russia probe, John Dowd, doubted the president’s ability to avoid perjuring himself should he be interviewed in special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian election interference and potential coordination with Trump’s campaign. Dowd stepped down in January. > > “Don’t testify. It’s either that or an orange jumpsuit,” Dowd is quoted telling the president. > > Dowd, in a statement Tuesday, said “no so-called ‘practice session’ or ‘re-enactment” took place and denied saying that Trump was likely to end up in an orange jumpsuit. > > Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis is quoted explaining to Trump why the U.S. maintains troops on Korean Peninsula to monitor North Korea’s missile activities. “We’re doing this in order to prevent World War III,” Mattis said, according to the book. > > The book recounts that Mattis told “close associates that the president acted like — and had the understanding of — ‘a fifth- or sixth-grader.'” One thing to remember, a few months later Kelly was out and not speaking to the president, and then Mattis too got the boot. As for Trump’s racism: [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/404940-trump-said-condemning-white-supremacists-was-biggest-f-ing-mistake](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/404940-trump-said-condemning-white-supremacists-was-biggest-f-ing-mistake) > [@](#): > > Trump said condemning white supremacists was ‘biggest f—ing mistake I’ve made’: Woodward book ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/453 "2019-07-20T22:06:08Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m not voting for a person. I’m voting for what I think will happen if he stays in office versus what I think will happen if we let one of the lunatic lefties in. All Democrats needed to do to retain my vote from the last two elections was not to go absolutely batshit crazy. In fact, I think that’s all they needed to do to win in a landslide. But Trump will win, because the Democrats have gone insane. We’ve proven that we live on entirely different planets, with entirely different factual histories, again and again, so I’ll just step back here. Best wishes to you and your family. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/454 "2019-07-20T22:24:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We’ve proven that we live on entirely different planets, with entirely different factual histories, again and again, so I’ll just step back here. Best wishes to you and your family. Beeee ggggoooodddd, Eeeeelllliiiooooot. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/455 "2019-07-20T22:30:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Getting back to the OP, the OP asked what conservative values are not based on bigotry. Some, like drilling for more oil, low taxes, high defense spending, have nothing to do with bigotry whatsoever. Should we discuss those? hmmm, [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-energy-pollution/african-americans-taking-brunt-of-oil-industry-pollution-report-idUSKBN1DE1CY](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-energy-pollution/african-americans-taking-brunt-of-oil-industry-pollution-report-idUSKBN1DE1CY) > [@](#): > > African-Americans face a disproportionate risk of health problems from pollution caused by the oil and gas industry, and the situation could worsen as President Donald Trump dismantles environmental regulations, according to a report issued on Tuesday by a pair of advocacy groups. > **[How Trump’s tax cuts favor whites over minorities](https://publicintegrity.org/inequality-poverty-opportunity/how-trumps-tax-cuts-favor-whites-over-minorities/)** > > When President Donald Trump last year signed into law the biggest tax overhaul in three decades, many experts concluded it was clear that most of the cuts went to the wealthy. Less clear was that the cuts disproportionately favor whites over... > [@](#): > > Data analysis shows people of color will get much smaller tax breaks over time > **[Structural racism places the burden of proposed budget cuts on people of color](https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/structural-racism-places-burden-proposed-budget-cuts-people-color)** > > Due to the circumstances in which many people of color find themselves because of structural racism, budgetary shifts will disproportionately affect communities of color. > [@](#): > > President Trump’s budget proposal released last week seeks to pay for an increase in defense spending by dramatically reducing discretionary domestic expenditures, a category that includes most of the social support and workforce development programs that help low-income people support their families and provide them the resources to get ahead in life. So maybe. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/456 "2019-07-20T22:39:32Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Beeee ggggoooodddd, Eeeeelllliiiooooot. **Elliott:** “You could be happy here, I could take care of you. I wouldn’t let anybody hurt you. We could grow up together, E.T.” \*\*Trump: [in a hazmat suit] \*\*Did you notice what that weird alien did? Made you go under the influence, did go over the border, made you kiss a girl by force… That is right, those aliens are ‘Drug dealers, criminals, rapists’… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/457 "2019-07-20T23:31:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Getting back to the OP, the OP asked what conservative values are not based on bigotry. Some, like drilling for more oil, low taxes, high defense spending, have nothing to do with bigotry whatsoever. Should we discuss those? Is that the really the extent of “conservative values”? There just doesn’t seem to be a lot of meat behind low taxes for the ultra rich (I’m not giving ‘low taxes’ as it doesn’t match history), drilling for oil, and spending a lot on the military-industrial complex (while cutting spending on soldiers). If I just straight posted that such a list was the sum total of “conservative values” I’m sure I’d be accused of caricaturing, but that seems to be all anyone can manage to dig up. A lot of the traditional things claimed as values that I would disagree with but at least respect like ‘support for law and order’ have proven in recent years to be something more like ‘support for the death penalty for minorities, but if rich white guys want to rape women or molest children we’re completely fine with it’. So while it’s not entirely surprising that there’s such a weak set of ‘values’ put forward, it is rather shocking just how many things that were formerly claimed as values have been abandonded or proven to not be true. Also, while not all conservatives are Christian, there are certainly a very large and vocal number of conservatives who claim to be Christian, and I think it’s very interesting to note that none of what’s come out as ‘values’ here actually line up with anything that Jesus said to do. ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/458 "2019-07-21T00:15:12Z")
Why are there more interracial couples who are Republican in Washington Politics? Clarence Thomas and Mia Love two examples off the top of my head. Bigoted…lol ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/459 "2019-07-21T00:22:02Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > Why are there more interracial couples who are Republican in Washington Politics? Clarence Thomas and Mia Love two examples off the top of my head. Bigoted…lol Hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176/460 "2019-07-21T00:23:54Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > **Why are there more interracial couples who are Republican in Washington Politics**? Clarence Thomas and Mia Love two examples off the top of my head. Bigoted…lol Cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-conservative-values-arent-based-on-bigotry/837176.md?page=24)