# What constitutes a (prosecutable) war criminal **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 10, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-a-prosecutable-war-criminal/986870 "2023-07-10T18:43:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-a-prosecutable-war-criminal/986870/1 "2023-07-10T18:43:38Z")
I’m asking mostly in regards to Putin (Russia invading Ukraine). He has given varying reasons why he ordered the invasion. None seem (to me) to rise to justification levels. The US estimates between civilians and troops, over 60,000 Ukrainians have died so far. that’s a lot of people and doesn’t include Russians. Could Putin be considered a war criminal? I realize we or the UN doesn’t have the wherewithal go and bring him to trial should we consider him so, but does he meet the definition? Is there an accepted definition? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-a-prosecutable-war-criminal/986870/2 "2023-07-10T19:09:25Z")
I certainly consider him to be a war criminal. My problem, which seems to be the same as the rest of the world’s problem, is gaining access to prosecute and punish him. The International Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for him, in March of this year, for war crimes, most specifically the forced deportation of children (which he denied, but later I seem to recall he bragged about it. I might be wrong about that). Russia does not recognize the jurisdiction of this court. For that matter, neither does the US. Ukraine has proposed seating a new tribunal, but I don’t think much has come of it. The ICC does, I believe, have a definition of war crimes and/or crimes against humanity, a definition that Putin appears to fulfill. The Nuremburg trials only happened after the Allied victory and Nazi leaders had either been caught or killed. We are not in that situation yet, and we may never be. Remember Kaiser Wilhelm II, who bore significant responsibility for WWI and some German troop atrocities, was allowed to retire and die peacefully in, I believe, the Netherlands. It’s all a matter of military power, and how the victors intend to use it for what (I hope) is the best future for the countries involved. At least Putin can’t travel to a lot of countries himself, for fear of being arrested. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-a-prosecutable-war-criminal/986870/3 "2023-07-10T19:19:42Z")
AFAICT, “war crime” is defined in the Rome Statute of 2002, which established the current International Criminal Court. > **[Rome Statute](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_Statute)** > > The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court is the treaty that established the International Criminal Court (ICC). It was adopted at a diplomatic conference in Rome, Italy on 17 July 1998 and it entered into force on 1 July 2002. As of November 2023, 124 states are party to the statute. Among other things, it establishes court function, jurisdiction and structure. > The Rome Statute established four core international crimes: genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the crime ... > [@](#): > > War crimes are defined in the statute that established the International Criminal Court, which includes: > > ``` > Grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, such as: > Willful killing, or causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health > Torture or inhumane treatment > Unlawful wanton destruction or appropriation of property > Forcing a prisoner of war to serve in the forces of a hostile power > Depriving a prisoner of war of a fair trial > Unlawful deportation, confinement or transfer > Taking hostages > Directing attacks against civilians > Directing attacks against humanitarian workers or UN peacekeepers > Killing a surrendered combatant > Misusing a flag of truce, a flag or uniform of the enemy > Settlement of occupied territory > Deportation of inhabitants of occupied territory > Using poison weapons > Using civilians as shields > Using child soldiers > Firing upon a Combat Medic with clear insignia. > The following acts as part of a non-international conflict: > Murder, cruel or degrading treatment and torture > Directing attacks against civilians, humanitarian workers or UN peacekeepers > The following acts as part of an international conflict: > Taking hostages > Summary execution > Pillage > Rape, sexual slavery, forced prostitution or forced pregnancy > > ``` > **[War crime](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime#International_Criminal_Court_2002)** > > A war crime is a violation of the laws of war that gives rise to individual criminal responsibility for actions by combatants in action, such as intentionally killing civilians or intentionally killing prisoners of war, torture, taking hostages, unnecessarily destroying civilian property, deception by perfidy, wartime sexual violence, pillaging, and for any individual that is part of the command structure who orders any attempt to committing mass killings including genocide or ethnic cleansing... Putin is already considered (and charged) as a war criminal, in connection to his command responsibility towards specifc acts which violated Rome Statute Article 12 (as listed above): > **[ICC issues arrest warrant for Putin on war crime allegations](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/3/17/icc-issues-arrest-warrant-for-russias-putin-over-ukraine-crimes)** > > Judges say arrest warrant issued over Russian president’s alleged involvement in abductions of children from Ukraine. Note that starting a war, no matter how egregious or evil, is not technically a war crime. The Rome Statute defines “crimes of aggression” separately from “war crimes”, and the ICC only has jurisdiction if the aggressor state accepts it. > **[Crime of aggression | Rome Statute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_aggression#Rome_Statute)** > > In 1998, at the Rome Conference that adopted the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court ("the Statute"), the crime was included as one of the crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court (Article 5.1) and over which any State that becomes party to the Statute accepts the Court's jurisdiction (Article 12.1). However, participants to the Rome Conference could not agree on the definition of the crime nor on further conditions for the Court's exercise of jurisdiction; the Statute did not all... ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-a-prosecutable-war-criminal/986870/4 "2023-07-10T19:44:58Z")
That does rather sound like the winners get to decide what is a crime. Have countries that did not sign the Geneva Convention been held responsible for not abiding by it? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-a-prosecutable-war-criminal/986870/5 "2023-07-10T19:57:49Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That does rather sound like the winners get to decide what is a crime Prosecutions of war crimes have historically been characterized by some as “victor’s justice”. Still, both parties in a conflict should be able to level charges at each other, whether winning or losing, if there is evidence of chargeable offenses. The only time a party would be completely unable to gain justice would be if they lose so thoroughly they don’t have a functional government or legal apparatus to convey the charges or represent the state at the ICC. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-a-prosecutable-war-criminal/986870/6 "2023-07-10T22:24:53Z")
No one prosecutes people with access to nuclear weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-a-prosecutable-war-criminal/986870/7 "2023-07-11T21:01:06Z")
Well, presumably if he was in court, he couldn’t reach the button.