# What constitutes an off-topic comment? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134 "2013-04-19T14:37:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/61 "2013-04-19T20:49:46Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I can’t think of a time I’ve bothered to criticize the mods here - overall I think they commendably do a shit job - but when I read **Ellen Cherry** ’s note in the thread linked in the OP my first thought was that she was kidding. It’s so over-the-top. > > I appreciate the attention to misogyny that has lead to the discussions happening in this forum, and I’ll be glad to see overt sexism cracked down on. But I agree with the majority here; the jokes in that sorority thread were neither mean-spirited nor degrading to women. Not nearly as degrading as the rant in the OP. And the point of the thread was to _mock_ at those sterotypes, which is what the posts that received the warning were doing. > > ETA: and the warning to **Munch** in this thread was uncalled for. This. I fully agree with all of that. And I also challenge anyone to find me previously criticizing mod actions/rulings. ISTM that the recent uproar has led to some people looking for opportunities to take offense, and having been encouraged to report incidence of such, are maybe just a tad overeager to do so. (Eek! Someone said _boner_!) And the mods, not wanting to appear to do nothing about such complaints, are not sufficiently weighing the merits. Classic hammer/nail. (Note: That was NOT a misogynistic innuendo! Don’t taze me bro!) ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/62 "2013-04-19T21:23:38Z")
Well, I wasn’t kidding and yes, it was reported that’s why I went to look at it. Either we want to be a less misogynistic board or we don’t. A lot of you think things are A-OK the way they are; a lot of others think that they are not. After the “monster thread” (which I did read) I received the impression (based partially on approval of my post near the end of the thread) that people believe moving in this direction is a good thing. Ergo, when I see a post that is dismissive of women (getting a boner when she rants), I posted what I believed to be an extremely mild reminder that this is what we now think needs to be the case: less misogyny. Less sexual sneering. More understanding of “you may not believe this to be offensive but I, as a woman, am telling you that it is.” I don’t know that I’m going to get it perfectly right. I might err and go overboard. I might get rules-lawyered. That’s why when I addressed this issue I made it a mild reminder. There’s a paradigm shift; we don’t want to make women feel like shit any more. That’s what I was trying to foster. Let’s all try to understand the point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/63 "2013-04-19T21:31:04Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I don’t know that I’m going to get it perfectly right. I might err and go overboard. I might get rules-lawyered. That’s why when I addressed this issue I made it a mild reminder. There’s a paradigm shift; we don’t want to make women feel like shit any more. That’s what I was trying to foster. Let’s all try to understand the point of view. You blew it. If you are going to start inventing new rules or enforcing old ones in entirely unprecedented ways, you have to give notice before doing so. I seriously doubt most posters have read that enormous thread. I certainly haven’t. A “paradigm shift” should be announced in a sticky topic in each forum affected. That noted, I object in the strongest possible terms to this “paradigm shift” you propose. It is completely unnecessary and a gross overreaction to a request from a vocal minority. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/64 "2013-04-19T21:32:54Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You blew it. If you are going to start inventing new rules or enforcing old ones in entirely unprecedented ways, you have to give notice before doing so. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/65 "2013-04-19T21:34:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Cite? :rolleyes: Common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/66 "2013-04-19T21:39:16Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Common sense. Right, no cite. You shouldn’t say “you have to” when you mean “I think you should.” We don’t have to announce it any more than we have to announce a new rule every time we enforce the jerk rule - since sometimes I get the feeling that some posters believe every enforcement of that rule involves breaking some kind of new ground. That said, I will ask the rest of the mods if they feel an announcement is called for. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/67 "2013-04-19T21:44:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Right, no cite. You shouldn’t say “you have to” when you mean “I think you should.” We don’t have to announce it any more than we have to announce a new rule every time we enforce the jerk rule - since sometimes I get the feeling that some posters believe every enforcement of that rule involves breaking some kind of new ground. That said, I will ask the rest of the mods if they feel an announcement is called for. Really? That was necessary? You see no issue with basic fairness in announcing major rule **CHANGES** prior to enforcement? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/68 "2013-04-19T21:57:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > since sometimes I get the feeling that some posters believe every enforcement of that rule involves breaking some kind of new ground. That said, I will ask the rest of the mods if they feel an announcement is called for. This is new ground, though. As I understand it, “being a jerk” has always been something decided on a case by case basis. There are some people on this board with views that I personally find distasteful, and I think everyone who posts here a lot can think of a few members that they feel the same way about. This new rule, though, seems to say that anyone who posts misogynist content, **even if it is not directed at any particular member of this board** , is a jerk. Not anti-Semitic content. Not anti-Christian or anti-atheist content. Not anti-vegetarian or anti-male or anti-nazi or anti-console gaming or pro-cat declawing or whateverelse content. That’s all got to be filtered through the “old style” definition of the rule which requires a look at the context and content of the post in question. If the board is making a specific effort to move away from misogynist viewpoints, and is going to enforce that move with an application of an existing rule, then yeah - I think that’s breaking new ground. Whatever. If that’s what it’s going to be, then fine. But I’ll go on record saying two things. 1. Cultural shifts can’t be created by fiat. 2. A thread with 100 posters on a board with 150,000 unique members (and over 7000 of them considered ‘active’) is in no way a “consensus.” ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/69 "2013-04-19T22:03:17Z")
I thought it was good modding. There was no warning, but a gentle reprimand. This seems appropriate for an issue that the mods have been made aware that make members uncomfortable. Using a gentle reprimand to let people know that they are crossing the line serves as the announcement. Perhaps, if I were a mod I wouldn’t have made the same exact post. But, I thought it was fair. And, well explained. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/70 "2013-04-19T22:34:10Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > when I see a post that is dismissive of women Dismissive of one woman (who, quite frankly, has shown the entire world that she should be dismissed) is not, in any way, equivalent to being dismissive of women. > [@](#): > > More understanding of “you may not believe this to be offensive but I, as a woman, am telling you that it is.” Quite frankly, this is a horrible mentality. You, as an individual, may find it offensive, but that only means that it is offensive to you. You cannot speak for an entire gender, and your individual opinion most certainly does not create a general rule of offensiveness. > [@](#): > > I don’t know that I’m going to get it perfectly right. You’re not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/71 "2013-04-19T22:43:11Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Really? That was necessary? > > You see no issue with basic fairness in announcing major rule **CHANGES** prior to enforcement? There’s no major rule change, though. Having been told that some posters think there’s been a problem with sexist or misogynist posts and having had a long discussion of why that is, we’re making sure we’re as diligent in enforcing the don’t be a jerk rule with regard to that stuff as we are with, for example, racist comments. That said, I was serious when I said I would ask the staff if they felt we needed to announce that we’re doing something here. I did that and I’ll see what the other mods think. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > This is new ground, though. As I understand it, “being a jerk” has always been something decided on a case by case basis. It still is. We’re not making up a rule that every comment a woman objects to is sexist and therefore banned. > [@](#): > > This new rule, though, seems to say that anyone who posts misogynist content, **even if it is not directed at any particular member of this board** , is a jerk. > > Not anti-Semitic content. Not anti-Christian or anti-atheist content. Not anti-vegetarian or anti-male or anti-nazi or anti-console gaming or pro-cat declawing or whateverelse content. You’re comparing demeaning women to attacking people based on ideas and preferences and beliefs, and I don’t think that washes. Since these threads about sexism and misogyny have been general - there have been some examples but it’s mostly been about the concept and about types of posts - I think people are imagining we’ll be modding a lot of different things. To me this is not about expressing particular types of ideas. We allow a lot of debate about race and religion and politics and sometimes people say things that leave a lot of the rest of us befuddled. You could call that stuff ‘controversial opinions.’ The First Amendment doesn’t really apply here, but we try to let people express a wide variety of opinions. In this discussion I don’t really see anything similar to that regarding women. To my knowledge, we don’t have anybody who regularly argues that women are dumber or inferior or deserve fewer rights than men and there aren’t even a lot of posters who subscribe to “traditional” views of women as subservient to men. So we’re not talking about cracking down on ideas. I see this as mostly referring to off-topic stuff like comments about women’s bodies. Sexual commentary where it doesn’t belong, for example. You’re right that we’d have less tolerance for comments directed at SDMB posters. We’ve always modded comments that were off-topic or offensive to the point of jerk-itude whether they were aimed at posters or not, and this is more of the same in that sense. I hope that helps some. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/72 "2013-04-19T22:52:06Z")
I’m sure that as the mods begin more widespread enforcement of the “don’t be a jerk” rule as it relates to misogynist comments on board, there will be some situations where there are over-heavy moderator actions. It’s the nature of the pendulum swinging back towards the middle, where it should have been, from the side of it not being moderated nearly at all before. I am sure there will be a comfortable middle ground that will be reached soon with regards to how this type of comment is interpreted. ---
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/73 "2013-04-19T22:56:34Z")
I can’t believe I was here to see the SDMB officially jump the shark! Can we just rename it? How about: The She-Womyn’s Boy Haters Messageboard. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/74 "2013-04-19T23:16:26Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > … I posted what I believed to be an extremely mild reminder… > > **\** > > That’s why when I addressed this issue I made it a mild reminder. > [@pricciar](#): > > I thought it was good modding. There was no warning, but a gentle reprimand. This seems appropriate for an issue that the mods have been made aware that make members uncomfortable. Using a gentle reprimand to let people know that they are crossing the line serves as the announcement. But that’s just it - many people don’t think the line came even close to being crossed. And it’s the \*verdict \*people are disagreeing with, not the _sentencing_. I’m usually the first to say “big fucking deal” to people complaining about getting a Mod Note when they were toeing the line. But that’s usually in truly grey areas, where the call could go either way and is mostly/totally inconsequential to board policy. But IMO, this one was out of left field, and I doubt that _anyone_ (who belongs on the Dope, based on other content) would have ever even blinked or taken offense at that boner comment outside of the goings-on of a few recent threads. It’s not the comment that crossed the line, it’s the heightened sense of indignation. People looking for reasons to be offended usually have little trouble finding it, even where it was never intended and/or doesn’t really exist. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/75 "2013-04-19T23:31:36Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > I can’t believe I was here to see the SDMB officially jump the shark! > > Can we just rename it? > > How about: The She-Womyn’s Boy Haters Messageboard. I’m also glad to see that I joined in enough time to see the mature contingent who are now outraged at possibly not being allowed to make a leering fourth grade dick joke. Timing for the win! ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/76 "2013-04-19T23:37:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I see this as mostly referring to off-topic stuff like comments about women’s bodies. Sexual commentary where it doesn’t belong, for example. So in the weekly Big Bang Theory thread…you’re going to go all jack boots on people for saying “Nice rack, Bernadette”? Substitute any series if you don’t know that show. Male poster makes sexual comment about female character. For bonus points: If you would not mod the above, how is it different than what happened in the incident that prompted this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/77 "2013-04-19T23:46:30Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > So in the weekly Big Bang Theory thread…you’re going to go all jack boots on people for saying “Nice rack, Bernadette”? > > Substitute any series if you don’t know that show. Male poster makes sexual comment about female character. No. > [@](#): > > For bonus points: If you would not mod the above, how is it different than what happened in the incident that prompted this thread? I fail to see how this is similar at all. It’s not a fictional character, it’s an actual person; it’s not a quote of anything, since quotes and TV show references tend to be jokey by their nature. The issue here - to me and I think to **Ellen Cherry** as well - was that the sexual commentary in this particular instance was inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/78 "2013-04-19T23:48:41Z")
Can I still say hookers and blow? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/79 "2013-04-19T23:58:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I fail to see how this is similar at all. It’s not a fictional character, it’s an actual person; it’s not a quote of anything, since quotes and TV show references tend to be jokey by their nature. The issue here - to me and I think to **Ellen Cherry** as well - was that the sexual commentary in this particular instance was inappropriate. Nothing about quotes in my hypothetical. Sexual commentary about a non-poster–in one instance, a character, played by an actress who does, in fact, have a rather impressive set of female secondary sexual characteristics which are usually not plot points. In the other instance, sexual commentary about a non-poster who is currently enjoying her 15 minutes of fame. And again, how exactly is a boner joke inappropriate in the context of a thread about a profanity laced rant filled with sexual innuendo, including a threat to “cunt punt” sorority sisters? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134/80 "2013-04-19T23:59:41Z")
I think the SDMB should be closed on Sundays. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-constitutes-an-off-topic-comment/656134.md?page=5)