# What could a phonograph do to be worth $12000? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 20, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617 "2020-08-20T23:19:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/21 "2020-08-21T16:32:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If a person can tell the difference between a pair of $30000 pair of amplifiers and a pair of $3000 pair of amplifiers merely by listening, - I can hear my checkbook whimpering, does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/22 "2020-08-21T17:09:32Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > No cables Well, according to the specs there are no outputs either…So, I guess it is an $12,000 paperweight. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/23 "2020-08-21T17:35:51Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > That said, for that kind of money I might start looking for a laser turntable instead. Exactly. Give a CPU a quick 3D rendering of the vinyl and select the output quality you want: _add_ pops and clicks–clean high quality pressing–band in your living room–God rubbing your tummy. That’d be what, like, $1,000 worth of tech? Maybe some more, but it seems like pretty quickly your amp & speakers, and you floor covering and room furniture would become the weak links in one’s audiophilia. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/24 "2020-08-21T17:44:39Z")
“Worth” is something that is very subjective because it is based on what a given individual is willing to pay. A number of years back, I saw a news blurb stating that a Japanese corporation bought a Rembrandt for $40 million. It was a painting of a pot of flowers. I would have paid $100 or so for it, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/25 "2020-08-21T18:08:50Z")
I thought the thread title was “photograph” and I was about to post that [this beauty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhein_II#/media/File:Rhein_II.jpg) was sold for $4.3M. I wouldn’t say it was worth it, but what do I know. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/26 "2020-08-21T18:47:17Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Worth it? You be the judge; it helps to know what a good live performance sounds like to have a baseline for comparison. Nobody is saying you cannot enjoy your 19th-century gramophone or your compressed-to-hell mp3. I agree, not just about speakers, but about audio equipment in general, keeping in mind that the knowledgeable audiophile quickly learns what is worth spending money on and what isn’t. By the same token, with experience one generally has a pretty good idea about the point of diminishing returns. Spending a lot of money on speakers? Shop carefully, audition them in audio stores, and go nuts to the extent you can afford and justify, because they’re really important and the quality differences are vast. Amp? Make sure it has adequate distortion-free power across a wide frequency spectrum and all the functionality you need, and that’s about it. I wouldn’t go overboard; for a typical system, not a concert hall, I’d probably draw the line of diminishing returns for a decent amp at under $1000 or less. The whole business of turntables and vinyl is an interesting discussion in its own right. I wouldn’t claim that it’s necessarily “better” than digital, specifically CDs, but it’s different, and often equalized differently. That, and various other aesthetic and nostalgia factors make a turntable an interesting accessory in a sound system. But spending $12,000 on one is just ridiculous. I appreciate great sound as much as anyone, but overpriced cables have to be among the stupidest things that people waste money on. $50,000 for speaker cables? I use lamp cord from the local hardware store and I challenge anyone to tell the difference. The important thing is to use wire of sufficient gauge for the power being delivered, and to have the speakers wired in phase. Quality matters to a limited extent for high-performance digital signals like HDMI, but even there cables delivering perfectly adequate quality can be had for very reasonable prices. As long as it’s rated for the speed/resolution being used and doesn’t generate errors, and the connectors are sturdy and reliable, it will deliver exactly the same video and audio quality as a cable costing ten times or a thousand times as much. The funniest ripoff has to be that $17K power cable. I wonder if anyone buying such a thing has given any thought to the fact that it plugs into a wall socket, behind which is whatever cheap crap the building contractor decided to use running for hundreds of feet, then connecting to a vast mess of a utility grid for perhaps a thousand miles or so. The only power-related thing that may sometimes make sense for high-end equipment is a power conditioner or a good quality commercial UPS. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/27 "2020-08-21T18:49:56Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > I thought the thread title was “photograph” and I was about to post that [this beauty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhein_II#/media/File:Rhein_II.jpg) was sold for $4.3M. > > I wouldn’t say it was worth it, but what do I know.   If that’s worth $4.3M, then the typical Windows wallpaper included with the OS must be worth billions! 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/28 "2020-08-21T19:14:36Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > And I wouldn’t _dare_ power my amplifier with anything other than a [Nordost Supreme Reference Odin 2 Power Cord](https://blinkhighend.com/shop/cables/nordost-cables/nordost-power-cords/nordost-norse-2-heimdall-power-cord/). It put me way behind on my mortgage, but it’s still the best $17K I ever spent. I know this is a hijack, and I apologize, but while I know making fun of some of the more extreme ends of the audiophile equipment spectrum can be loads of fun, I look at this power cord and think, “What the hell?” Consider this incredible specimen of a power cord. You connect it to your massively expensive amplifiers on one end, and the other end plugs into what? A contractor grade outlet, and then dozens of feet of bog standard Romex? Then you’ve got the contractor grade breakers and box, out to whatever shit the power company installed all the way back to their power plant. But _GODDAMN_, you’ve got the most awesome last three feet? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/29 "2020-08-21T19:20:27Z")
All those walls and dirt keeps losses to almost nothing. But those last three feet are _in the open air!_ ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/30 "2020-08-21T19:38:10Z")
I bought (for a nickle at a garage sale) what must be 4 gauge (it is really fucking thick, is my point. I dunno the actual guage) stereo signal cable terminated on each side by 1/8 inch headphone plugs. Oh yeah, it was only SIX INCHES LONG. I didn’t need it. But the price was right for a “wtf is this garbage” joke piece that absolutely none of my friends or family understood except my dad, the electrical engineer. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/31 "2020-08-21T19:49:38Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Consider this incredible specimen of a power cord. You connect it to your massively expensive amplifiers on one end, and the other end plugs into what? A contractor grade outlet, and then dozens of feet of bog standard Romex? Then you’ve got the contractor grade breakers and box, out to whatever shit the power company installed all the way back to their power plant. But _GODDAMN_ , you’ve got the most awesome last three feet? See [my post #26](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/26), last paragraph. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/32 "2020-08-21T20:07:43Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > “Worth” is something that is very subjective because it is based on what a given individual is willing to pay… Russian plutocrat: “Look at this cool new wristwatch. I paid $75,000 for it!” Second Russian plutocrat: “You should have talked to me first. I know a place where you could have paid a _lot_ more.” ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/33 "2020-08-21T22:18:44Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Well, according to the specs there are no outputs either…So, I guess it is an $12,000 paperweight. The output depends on the specific cartridge you install, much like a film camera isn’t inherently color or black and white - it’s your choice of film. About that cartridge… people who buy this turntable probably won’t use a Panasonic DJ cartridge. It’s not hard to spend a few thou more for a cartridge “worthy” of use on this turntable. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/34 "2020-08-21T22:30:20Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > • Velocity of Propagation: 88% Speed of Light > What a ripoff. For that price I expect _at least_ 97%. Even that would degrade my Alcubierre™ turntable, which could otherwise deliver music to my ears before I even play it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/35 "2020-08-22T15:25:49Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I bought (for a nickle at a garage sale) what must be 4 gauge (it is really fucking thick, is my point. I dunno the actual guage) stereo signal cable terminated on each side by 1/8 inch headphone plugs. Oh yeah, it was only SIX INCHES LONG. I didn’t need it. But the price was right for a “wtf is this garbage” joke piece that absolutely none of my friends or family understood except my dad, the electrical engineer. I love a good physical joke. It’d be fun to know if the person who built it meant it as a joke. And whether it was home-brew or a factory product. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/36 "2020-08-22T15:40:58Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Even that would degrade my Alcubierre™ turntable, which could otherwise deliver music to my ears before I even play it. I think I have the same system, but the brand on mine is Thiotimoline. $12K for a turntable in 2020 is nothing. I remember a $15K turntable available (without cartridge!) in the 70s. Separating the gullible from their money has a long tradition. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/37 "2020-08-22T15:44:22Z")
It is of course a Monster Cable. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/38 "2020-08-22T16:50:32Z")
I’ve been browsing that place that offers the $17,000 power cable, and I see now that the OP’s $12,000 turntable is just cheap junk. [A proper turntable costs at least $18,000.](https://blinkhighend.com/shop/turntables/technics/technics-sl-1000r/). Naturally, for that price you cannot expect it to include a cartridge, but the same place will be happy to sell you one [for just under $9,000](https://blinkhighend.com/shop/cartridges/ortofon/mc-anna-nude/). So for a mere $27,000, you almost have a complete turntable. You will still need a cable to connect it to your preamp and thence to the rest of your system, and we know from experience that this cable will cost about as much as a 45-foot oceangoing yacht, per 3-foot length. (It’s possible that for $18K, the turntable makers might include a cable, but it probably lacks connectors made from the gold recovered from Tutankhamun’s tomb and likely propagates electricity at less than 90% of the speed of light, thus wrecking your entire audio experience.) As I said before, I love great sound and I have always been willing to stress my budget to get the best that I could reasonably afford, but stuff like this is just embarrassing and gives us audiophiles a bad name. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/39 "2020-08-22T16:50:34Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > $12K for a turntable in 2020 is nothing. I remember a $15K turntable available (without cartridge!) in the 70s. Separating the gullible from their money has a long tradition. I was just going to say the same thing. Actually, I’m more impressed that you can get something this high-end for as low as $12,000. I would have expected inflation alone to double the cost. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/40 "2020-08-22T16:53:05Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I was just going to say the same thing. Actually, I’m more impressed that you can get something this high-end for as low as $12,000. I would have expected inflation alone to double the cost. - It works because it’s only half the quality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617.md?page=3)