# What could a phonograph do to be worth $12000? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 20, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617 "2020-08-20T23:19:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/81 "2020-08-25T03:35:32Z")
But, really, folks, why do we listen to music? For pleasure, for the emotional connection. How much equipment and money do we really need for that? Growing up, my best friends were audio “hobbyists”, and spent a lot on their systems. One guy often went crazy on equipment that he’d admit would only make a minuscule difference (oh, now he won’t listen to anything digital if it’s less than a lossless Flac file @ 1411kbps). But I made a decision back then that’s served me well: **Don’t Get Spoiled** and **Keep The Goal In Mind.** With my car snob friends, I had to keep in mind that the goal was the fun and freedom of , y’know, driving. Which I could do even if it was drifting with my parents’ station wagon (while my pal’s MGB-GT was up on a lift getting fixed again). With my audiophile friends, I had to remember that I wanted that shiver that Jimi’s guitar could give me, even on scratchy vinyl. Or the exhilaration of discovering the first Led Zeppelin album on my cheapo turntable from Goodwill. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/82 "2020-08-25T03:43:31Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Some malls used to use ‘teen control’ audio, a loud annoying screech above 18k. Teens are annoyed by it, non-teens can’t hear it at all I had students laughing about “the ringtone that teachers couldn’t hear”. My reply was that I believed that’s possible, because my hear… and I got interrupted by a couple of kids yelling _“Stop it! That’s so annoying, with like a dozen people playing that ringtone at once! Turn it off!”_ I told them all to keep playing it… To me, the room was utterly silent. ---
**Author:** ![superwombat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superwombat/32/16616_2.png) [@superwombat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superwombat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/83 "2020-08-25T03:45:53Z")
1. Save and Print 2. Head to pawn shop with backstory 3. … 4. … 5. … Profit? ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/84 "2020-08-25T04:29:12Z")
you know the sad thing? 98 percent of this thread can be applied to the pc gaming crowd … the only other board I’ve ever been on a regular basis is GameFAQs pc board …and I thought car and stereo geeks would swallow some snake oil but some of those guys it seems had too much money but didnt have much of a life … ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/85 "2020-08-25T04:46:29Z")
PC gaming enthusiasts (along with ‘elite’ enthusiasts of any hobby) can be insufferable, but they tend to focus on objectively measurable benchmarks. I apologize if this is a hijack, but this thread has actually got me wondering if there are any other extreme hobbyists who have developed a set of near-mystical standards that are completely divorced from even the highest end professionals who exist in that space. I may think that a comic book collector is a lunatic to spend three million dollars on a mint copy of Superman #1, but its value is understandable as an important piece of history and art. Likewise, a pc enthusiast can point to his rig and tell you exactly what kind of performance he is getting without resorting to immeasurable, subjective claims. Audiophiles seem to exist in their own very rarified air. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/86 "2020-08-25T06:33:46Z")
Speaking hypothetically, we can imagine an individual who can point to completely objective measurements of distortion, frequency response, acoustics, etc., and cares about them, but who him- or herself has the hearing of Beethoven. That said, there is no real justification for buying snake oil or fraudulent products, or paying 10x the price for something for no reason whatsoever, not even an aesthetic one. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/87 "2020-08-25T18:17:03Z")
> [@digs](#): > > But, really, folks, why do we listen to music? For pleasure, for the emotional connection. How much equipment and money do we really need for that? “High End Audio” for me is anything with more signal than noise… I still have some of my folks’ old 78s. Noisy as hell, but still kinda fun to listen to. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/88 "2020-08-25T18:19:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I apologize if this is a hijack, but this thread has actually got me wondering if there are any other extreme hobbyists who have developed a set of near-mystical standards that are completely divorced from even the highest end professionals who exist in that space. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Audiophiles seem to exist in their own very rarified air. I wonder about this too. I think all hobbies have a subset of people that take things way too seriously and suck all the fun out of it. I think the “spending money way past the point of diminishing returns” attitude exists everywhere. I’d lump the audiophiles who fret about sampling rates, etc. way past the point of their middle aged hearing ability that @Sam_Stone is talking about into this crowd. Maybe there is an actual measurable metric they’re chasing but it’s really not useful for just enjoying music. I see this in cycling too. There’s certainly some money to be spent to get to a baseline of quality components and lightness of bike that will make riding more enjoyable. But when you start spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to shave off some number of grams from the weight of your gear and you’re a middle aged 20 pounds overweight man I feel you’ve gone off the deep end somewhat. You can cut back on the fries and beer for free 🙂 That level of spending only makes sense if you’re genuinely competing at the highest level and those marginal weight differences can actually determine winning or losing. But the audiophiles who buy the grossly overpriced stuff that gushes about “musical energy”, “true inner emotion”, and “musically involving” are taking this to a whole new level. Is this actually a substantial market? Or do some of these manufacturers pop out the champagne when they make one sale to a sucker? I can’t think of another hobby that goes so far off the rails with the unquantifiable goals. It seems closer to your crystal healing or homeopathic woo than taking hobbies too far. > [@digs](#): > > But I made a decision back then that’s served me well: **Don’t Get Spoiled** and **Keep The Goal In Mind.** Yes. That’s a good attitude. I keep that in mind with the cycling. The goal is to get a good amount of exercise, explore trails and neighborhoods, get outside, and right now socialize in a safer environment. A marginally lighter bike would actually hinder the exercise! And it wouldn’t make me faster in any measurable way that would contribute to my enjoyment of cycling. There’s a baseline of quality that I pay for so that the bike is relatively agile for the fast paved trails but sturdy enough for bouncing around the worst of the Seattle streets. But spending $6k on a bike would absolutely not increase my enjoyment of cycling by any amount that could come close to justifying the expense. I see this in other things too. The Pinewood Derby cars for Cub Scouts for example. The ridiculous amount of money and accessories you can buy to marginally improve this silly little wooden car, where it’s clear it’s not just a fun activity for your 8 year old anymore … at some point you’re just totally missing the point. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/89 "2020-08-26T02:23:36Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > NPR has an ABx testing page where they randomly give you the same music sample in three different formats My ears seem to like the 320k files. The tortured path the sound takes though… from website to my desktop, then out on USB to a DAC, an amp, and a pair of NHT speakers. If I’m bored, I might try AirPlaying that site to my main system. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/90 "2020-08-26T02:46:44Z")
Ok, I’m bored. 🤪 On the big system AirPlaying from iPad to the AppleTV, then HDMI to the amp, I did much better, picking four of the uncompressed WAV files, even though the iPad itself appears to be contributing a fair bit of _bzzzz_ that went away when I stopped mirroring. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/91 "2020-08-26T02:57:45Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > I see this in cycling too… when you start spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to shave off some number of grams from the weight of your gear and you’re a middle aged 20 pounds overweight man I feel you’ve gone off the deep end somewhat. You can cut back on the fries and beer for free 🙂 I’ve been struggling to keep from going “Full Bikeophile”, too. Like you, I’ve been pedaling to get in shape (unlike you, I’d be intimidated by the hills of Seattle). But I’ve been careful to not quantify my riding. So far I’ve avoided looking up elevations or even counting the miles. Wife bought me a bike computer, but if I install it I’ll be watching it instead of the scenery. And thinking about average speeds and gas mileage. :~} So enjoy the ride, enjoy the music, and screw “the paralysis of analysis”. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/92 "2021-12-16T00:29:03Z")
If you use ethernet for audio signals, you can get an “audiophile-quality” ethernet switch for only $2600: > **[Synergistic Research Ethernet Switch UEF](https://www.synergisticresearch.com/accessories/ethernet-switch-uef/)** > > \[et\_pb\_section fb\_built=”1″ custom\_padding\_last\_edited=”on|desktop” disabled\_on=”on|off|off” admin\_label=”section” \_builder\_version=”4.16″ background\_color=”#f9f9f9″ custom\_padding=”0px|0px|0px|0px” custom\_padding\_tablet=”50px|0|50px|0″... Here are a couple of excerpts from [one reviewer](https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/synergistic-research-ethernet-switch-uef/): > With the Ethernet Switch UEF in place, Allison’s voice is creamy smooth and without any loss of inner detail. Guitars and percussion are now much more naturally presented and full-bodied. The results are easy to identify and it can be tough to differentiate this digital playback from my excellent vinyl pressing! > . > . > . > I was amazed at the amount of dynamic headroom and lifelike immediacy, all without the typical digital glare that seems to be the norm when streaming. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/93 "2021-12-16T02:10:56Z")
> [@](#): > > We’ve continued this decade-long adaption of EM Cell technology to condition the digital signal in an Ethernet Switch for perhaps our most transformational product since the original PowerCell line conditioner. I’m sure it’s exactly as transformational as their ‘PowerCell line conditioner’. Because ‘unconditioned’ bits are way more digitally bad than the conditioned ones. And make sure you plug that thing in with their $995 power cord, because otherwise you might not have removed all the power noise from the bits, making them less bitty. Creamy Smooth inner-detail full-bodied These are all synonyms for “unmeasurable bullshit we can’t be sued for claiming, but which people who buy our stuff will swear is true, because otherwise they’d have to admit that buying thousands of dollars of equipment to ‘condition’ an ethernet data stream was a really stupid thing to do.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/94 "2021-12-16T02:33:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And make sure you plug that thing in with their $995 power cord, Baby’s First Power Cord. 😉 Adults buy these. > **[SRX Power Cables - Synergistic Research](https://www.synergisticresearch.com/cables/srx-cables/srx-ac/)** > > \[et\_pb\_section fb\_built=”1″ custom\_padding\_last\_edited=”on|desktop” disabled\_on=”on|off|off” admin\_label=”section” \_builder\_version=”4.16″ background\_color=”#f9f9f9″ custom\_padding=”0px|0px|0px|0px” custom\_padding\_tablet=”50px|0|50px|0″... # SRX AC Cable specifications: **MSRP** **$10,000 / 6ft.** **$1,000 per addl. foot** And for those with truly discerning ears more money than brains: > # Synergistic Research SR25 Power Cable Review > > “Synergistic Research’s complex and difficult-to-manufacture SR25 Limited Edition power cord so stunningly demonstrates the relationship between high-quality power and high-quality sound that it may represent the apotheosis of power-cord design. When I said that the SR25 transformed virtually every aspect of my system’s sound, I wasn’t exaggerating. By the way, this thing costs 20,000. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/95 "2021-12-16T02:42:35Z")
And here are the 12 most expensive speakers, topping out at $5M for a pair with gold enclosures. > **[12 of the world's most expensive loudspeakers](https://www.whathifi.com/features/11-worlds-most-expensive-loudspeakers)** > > There's no harm in a little window-shopping... And I thought the B&W Nautilus speakers were outrageous at $38,000 a pair back in about 2006. Now they go for $60K. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/96 "2021-12-16T05:38:35Z")
Reminds me of an ad I once saw for a bottle of an enamel type liquid with a brush applicator that you would apply to the ‘audio chip’ in your amp to add the ‘warm tube amp sound’ to the output. I don’t remember how much, but only that it was absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/97 "2021-12-16T07:17:57Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > I once saw for a bottle of an enamel type liquid with a brush applicator that you would apply to the ‘audio chip’ in your amp to add the ‘warm tube amp sound’ to the output. I bet it was [C37](http://www.ennemoser.com/c37theory.html). Basically one of the most hilarious bits of audio mumbo jumbo in the annals of audiophoolery and snake oil. Physics so utterly bad that it isn’t even wrong. Ranks along with mpingo disks. The promotion and continued profitability of such things seriously worries me. There is an underbelly of much bad behaviour in high end audio industry. There is money to be made separating the wealthy from their money and many snouts in the trough. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/98 "2021-12-16T11:41:00Z")
That phonograph does the same thing to music that a [Hermes](https://www.fashionphile.com/p/hermes-matte-niloticus-crocodile-himalaya-birkin-30-blanc-868164?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7cf3iZ3o9AIVTJyzCh2NcgfnEAQYBiABEgIF7_D_BwE) purse does to kleenex and chap-stick. It allows the owner to preen and display status among peers, and separate themselves from the unwashed who can’t afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/99 "2021-12-16T13:18:19Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If you use ethernet for audio signals, you can get an “audiophile-quality” ethernet switch for only $2600: That entire review is worth reading. My favorite phrase was _timbral purity_; a shibboleth so obscure that it only gets about 1100 results on Google. But I do love the Tom’s Hardware review headline: “$2,500 Ethernet Switch Effectively Isolates Audiophiles From Cash” ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617/100 "2021-12-16T14:29:08Z")
I used to sell equipment in a mid-range audio store. I probably couldn’t have sold a $12,000 turntable, but I MIGHT have been able to sell a $12,000 phono cartridge. At the time, audiophiles were going nuts over any cartridge with a weird story. (Sizzle always sells the steak.) There was one cartridge that was made by a guy in Japan and it was hand-built in some kind of nut shell (walnut?) so it wouldn’t have any “unnatural” resonance. Seriously. You had to wait for a year or two to get one. With that said, I agree that the transducers (the phono cartridge and speakers) contribute the most to overall system sound when you play vinyl. Preamp and amplifier are next most important. Cables, interconnects, and so forth? Whatever. It sucks that I’m almost 70 YO and my hearing has deteriorated badly enough that I need to use hearing aids. My good equipment is all in (air-conditioned) storage. I should sell it, but I worked for years to build up the system and so it just sits. In fact, I’ve tried to give it away to nieces and nephews, but they truly have no appreciation or desire for a big, open-air system of any quality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-a-phonograph-do-to-be-worth-12000/918617.md?page=6)