# What could the Harris campaign have done differently? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 6, 2024, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798 "2024-11-06T16:37:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/343 "2024-11-17T23:08:31Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > I guess I don’t know what you mean by **normal** if you’re not trying to compare them to aberrancy like @Lumpy . People who don’t think about politics nearly as much as us online folk do. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/344 "2024-11-17T23:08:43Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Harris was hurt by having to switch from being clearly in favor of full trans medical and surgical care for prisoners to just saying it is up to judges. But if she just said that she still was in favor of full trans medical and surgical care for prisoners, her electoral loss would have been worse. > > Democrats considering a 2028 presidential run have a difficult decision to make as to what they will say about this if asked, as public opinion on it in 2025 and 2028 could be a lot different. I think the trans prisoners thing was something rhetorically Democrats never needed to advocate to win presidential elections. The federal government did allow them for prisoners under both Republican and Democratic administrations and until this election it wasn’t a voter concern because it costs so little money in reality for the tiny number of surgeries we actually end up paying for. That I think is a case of Harris getting burned by the classic tack to the left for the primaries, then tack to the center strategy that IMO is much less effective nowadays. And it’s the exception to a general rule that these wedge issues are largely interchangeable - because once it became a huge story it was also a taxpayer issue and a “dems are soft on crime” issue rolled into one. For stuff like the trans athletes thing, if there actually was a national ban on trans women/girls in women/girls sports, and even the bluest politicians supported it, the next issue would be something else. For example, bathrooms. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/345 "2024-11-17T23:10:57Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > No, it’s straight out of the anti-LGBTQQIP playbook with the accusation that the “I” stands for incest not intersex and the “P” stands for pedophile not pansexual Like immigrants who preponderantly favor “close the door after me” policies, social progressives are always certain that what _they_ are uneasy with really are objectively different from the reforms they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/346 "2024-11-17T23:14:22Z")
Yes, and ‘gay marriage’ leads to bestiality, same music different lyrics. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/347 "2024-11-17T23:15:45Z")
I see, but you do still largely agree with Lumpy correct? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/348 "2024-11-17T23:15:48Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > This cartoon sums it up (blurred so I don’t trigger anyone): …the URL for the cartoon includes a transphobic slur. And the cartoon reflects the URL. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/349 "2024-11-17T23:17:20Z")
He had me at “mutants”. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/350 "2024-11-17T23:17:44Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > I see, but you do still largely agree with Lumpy correct? No, it doesn’t sound like I do at all. Most of what he is saying is pretty gross. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/351 "2024-11-17T23:22:27Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > I don’t know how many times I need to repeat that Democrats should continue to be for trans rights: to have access to gender affirming care, to be treated as the gender they identify as in all social contexts, etc. > > …and the right for trans women to play in womens sports as well, right? Sports are not an area where we care about gender because of the social context; they are an area where we care about gender due to physical differences. So no, I don’t think there is a general “right” for trans women to play in women’s sports. I think it should be up to individual sports organizations to decide what is and isn’t fair depending on the specific sport in question. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/352 "2024-11-17T23:24:03Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@Lumpy](#): > > > > This cartoon sums it up (blurred so I don’t trigger anyone): > > …the URL for the cartoon includes a transphobic slur. And the cartoon reflects the URL. Yeah, the cartoon is pretty gross. Bathrooms are an area where we separate genders entirely based on social conventions, not physical differences. So trans people should be free to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with. ---
**Author:** ![Ash\_trav511](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@Ash\_trav511](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ash_trav511)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/353 "2024-11-17T23:27:41Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > In any case I have my reservations that the trans issue was really _that_ huge a deciding factor: From what I’ve seen in the Indian American community and from what I’ve heard about…in Latino community it was indeed a very significant factor (second only to immigration issue and for some it ranked above the economy). There seems to be a perception problem about the trans issue for the democrats which somehow the party needs to address or it will continue to bleed votes among the fast growing minorties like Asian Americans and Latinos…not just in red states but even in deep blue states as it happened in this 2024 election. Both non-political people and politically aware but independent voters in these two segments of the population have concerns on this issue is what I observed and they shifted significantly to the republicans (some just as a single point voter on the trans issue). The republicans just exploited the divide and inflamed it further by their ads. This is indeed quite a serious issue for the democrats electorally imo…something AOC recognised and removed pronouns from her bio just a couple days back. I as a wellwisher for democrats hope they address it sooner rather than later. How they address it I cannot say but they have to somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/354 "2024-11-17T23:29:41Z")
That’s good to read. You are least consistent. You are holding the people on your side accountable like you want the Democrats to do. I hope all Republicans can be as open to pushing back on this as you are. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/355 "2024-11-17T23:31:09Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > You are least consistent. You are holding the people on your side accountable like you want the Democrats to do. I hope all Republicans can be as open to pushing back on this as you are. I am _very much_ not a Republican. I voted straight Democrat this election, as I likely will for the foreseeable future, because any party that condones the events of Jan 6 is completely unfit for any kind of authority in my book. What I am is a Democrat who wants his party to remain committed to Liberal values and to be competitive in elections. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/356 "2024-11-17T23:33:41Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So no, I don’t think there is a general “right” for trans women to play in women’s sports. …what about trans men? Should they be forced to play in womens sports? Why the difference? > [@Babale](#): > > Sports are not an area where we care about gender because of the social context; they are an area where we care about gender due to physical differences. From Parker Molloy: > **[Fine, Let's Talk About Trans Athletes](https://www.readtpa.com/p/fine-lets-talk-about-trans-athletes)** > > But let's dispense with the pretense that this is actually about sports at all > [@](#): > > An 8-year-old trans girl[1](https://www.readtpa.com/p/fine-lets-talk-about-trans-athletes#footnote-1-151379146) does not have any advantage[2](https://www.readtpa.com/p/fine-lets-talk-about-trans-athletes#footnote-2-151379146) over any other 8-year-old girl in any sport. A 15-year-old trans girl who has been on puberty blockers does not have any advantage over any other 15-year-old girl. A 25-year-old trans woman who took puberty blockers and later began hormone replacement therapy later in her teens does not have any advantage over any other 25-year-old woman in any sport. **None of this should be in any way controversial.** We _do_ care about it in a social context. And inflammatory rhetoric from Democrats like what Seth Moutlon said is every bit as bad as opposing access to gender-affirming care or not treating them as the gender they identify as. Its all part of the same struggle. I agree to a degree that it should be left up to individual sports. But that’s only if those sports follow the science: and not just ban it based on bigoted, outdated ideals. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/357 "2024-11-17T23:33:50Z")
> [@Ash\_trav511](#): > > This is indeed quite a serious issue for the democrats electorally imo…something AOC recognised and removed pronouns from her bio just a couple days back. AIUI this is not true, she removed it months ago. It’s still on her Instagram too. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/358 "2024-11-17T23:35:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I am _very much_ not a Republican. Oh wow. I have to admit that’s very surprising to read. I guess some never Trumpers did leave the party after all. I understand how you feel now, and see why you want the push the Democratic party to become like the previous Gingrich / compassionate conservatives that Trump overwhelmed. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/359 "2024-11-17T23:39:21Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …what about trans men? Should they be forced to play in womens sports? Why the difference? Nobody is “forced” to participate in any sport. My answer is, quite literally, exactly the same: > [@Babale](#): > > think it should be up to individual sports organizations to decide what is and isn’t fair depending on the specific sport in question. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > From Parker Molloy: Do you think a word of your quote contradicts what I said? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > An 8-year-old trans girl[1](https://www.readtpa.com/p/fine-lets-talk-about-trans-athletes#footnote-1-151379146) does not have any advantage[2](https://www.readtpa.com/p/fine-lets-talk-about-trans-athletes#footnote-2-151379146) over any other 8-year-old girl in any sport. A 15-year-old trans girl who has been on puberty blockers does not have any advantage over any other 15-year-old girl. A 25-year-old trans woman who took puberty blockers and later began hormone replacement therapy later in her teens does not have any advantage over any other 25-year-old woman in any sport. **None of this should be in any way controversial.** Here’s what I said one more time: > [@Babale](#): > > I think it should be up to individual sports organizations to decide what is and isn’t fair depending on the specific sport in question. Yeah, whether someone underwent male puberty or not is obviously one of the factors that these sports organizations can and should consider when determining what is and isn’t fair. Which, as I understand it, is what they do right now. Sometimes trans girls are allowed to participate, and sometimes they aren’t, depending on their individual circumstances and the sport in question. Which is why I said that I don’t think that there is a _general right_ for trans women to play sports on women’s teams in all circumstances. I think it depends on the specific scenario in question, and that people who are familiar with both the sport in question and with the medicine involved should be the ones making that determination. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/360 "2024-11-17T23:41:13Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > Oh wow. I have to admit that’s very surprising to read. I guess some never Trumpers did leave the party after all What the hell are you talking about? I’m not a never trumper; I voted Democrat for the most part even before Trump, but I didn’t consider them disqualified from office as a group until Jan 6. Maybe you should try making fewer assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Ash\_trav511](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@Ash\_trav511](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ash_trav511)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/361 "2024-11-17T23:46:11Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > AIUI this is not true, she removed it months ago. It’s still on her Instagram I apologise… I read it somewhere and may be I was mistaken. My sincere apology if i said something factually untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798/362 "2024-11-17T23:47:35Z")
> [@Ash\_trav511](#): > > I read it somewhere and may be I was mistaken. My sincere apology if i said something factually untrue. I saw the same claim made, but I also saw that there were screenshots of her profile without it in March or something like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-could-the-harris-campaign-have-done-differently/1009798.md?page=19)