# What countries besides Germany refer to their country as "father" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 1, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060 "2003-01-01T17:27:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/1 "2003-01-01T17:27:43Z")
I’ve always thought there was an interesting Freudian parallel between Germany’s history and it’s referral to itself as a “fatherland” rather than “motherland.” What other countries refer to themselves in the masculine? Have any countries ever changed this reference from one to the other? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/2 "2003-01-01T17:33:47Z")
I’ve heard it said that Germany is the only one. Good question, I’ve often wondered if that was true. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/3 "2003-01-01T17:34:36Z")
France (patrie) and Russia (otechestvo) come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![typhoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed8c4c/32.png) [@typhoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typhoon)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/4 "2003-01-01T17:43:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tschild \* > \*\*France (patrie) and Russia (otechestvo) come to mind. \*\* That’s interesting, because the word France is feminine. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/5 "2003-01-01T17:54:12Z")
Something on the use of _Vaterland_ in German: in the texts where I have it read (mostly 19th century and early 20th century) it was generally used as a generic term: not _the_ fatherland but _some stated person’s or group’s_ fatherland: _our_ fatherland, _his_ fatherland (which could be Peru, Australia or even Germany as the case might be), etc. Germany was usually referred to as, well, Germany. There was a slur _vaterlandslose Gesellen_ (fatherlandless people) angainst Socialists and such, but the implication wasn’t that they were illoyal to Germany in some other nation’s favour but rather that they were not loyal to any one nation. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/6 "2003-01-01T18:04:16Z")
And Russia has the world’s biggest freestanding statue—a colossal heroic figure of a woman. Its title? _ **Motherland**._ ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/7 "2003-01-01T18:30:52Z")
Yeah, in all the movies you here “Mudder Russia” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/8 "2003-01-01T18:31:57Z")
_Hear_, the word is _hear_. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/9 "2003-01-01T19:04:19Z")
The Spanish word Patria also means fatherland in a generic sense: e.g.: The American got homesick and went back to his fatherland. Actually the word patria has lost all connotation or connection with father and Spaniards see their country more as a mother and will refer to it as “la madre patria”, “the mother fatherland”. Kind of strange if you analyze it. But all languages are strange if you analyze them. ---
**Author:** ![Mephisto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@Mephisto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mephisto)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/10 "2003-01-02T00:50:32Z")
If true, I think it’s interesting that > [@](#): > > . . . although Germans, as a whole, invariably refer to Germany as the “Fatherland”, Hitler almost always refers to it as the "Motherland. From about a quarter to a third of the way down the page in [this report](http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/oss-papers/text/oss-profile-05-04.html) which, if I’m not mistaken, I first found on the SDMB. Warning to the queasy: this is a psychological profile of Adolph Hitler and probably should not be read in its entirety immediately before or after dinner. Not completely off-topic, and the OP’s mention of Freud and the Fatherland immediately brought it to mind. Happy New Year! ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/11 "2003-01-02T01:13:40Z")
The Romans called their land patria (“patria mea” are the words I I have memorized for the first conjugation). In the United States we seem to love the word patriot. Many countries refer to their cultural patrimony. I don’t think it’s a particularly German pathology. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/12 "2003-01-02T01:29:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capybara \* > \*\*The Romans called their land patria (“patria mea” are the words I I have memorized for the first conjugation). In the United States we seem to love the word patriot. Many countries refer to their cultural patrimony. I don’t think it’s a particularly German pathology. \*\* I wasn’t saying that Germany’s referral to it’s homeland in the masculine was necessarily a form of mass pathology. I also think that reference to culture is different than reference to a “homeland.” Referring to a country’s cultural heritage or patrimony in the masculine makes sense to me as men typically do/have done the bequeathing, both nominally and monetarily. **Mephisto** I had no idea that Hitler referred to Germany as the Motherland - I always thought the opposite, although I do remember scanning that report at one time or another. It was interesting that the analyst never came out and said that 9 of Hitler’s mistresses committed suicide (he did mention 3) and that he forced them to defecate on his head. You’d think that would be more commonly known in the case of a person whom everyone is/was looking to hate. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/13 "2003-01-02T01:50:30Z")
> [@](#): > > … Germany’s referral to it’s homeland in the masculine … Just to add confusion I’d like to add that the words _Vaterland_ (the antiquated generic term) and _Deutschland_ (the name of the country) are grammatically _neuter_. _Vaterland_, just like _patrie_, probably evolved from something like ‘country of the ancestors’, not ‘the country, my father’. Nobody was ever told by the Motherland: Just wait until the Fatherland comes home 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/14 "2003-01-02T01:54:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > \*\* It was interesting that the analyst never came out and said that 9 of Hitler’s mistresses committed suicide (he did mention 3) and that he forced them to defecate on his head. You’d think that would be more commonly known in the case of a person whom everyone is/was looking to hate. \*\* I always thought that Hitler only had one mistress (gayle sp?). ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/15 "2003-01-02T01:56:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*I always thought that Hitler only had one mistress (gayle sp?). \*\* Your probably referring to Geli Rabaul, his neice. Nope, he had a buttload, literally and figuratively. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/16 "2003-01-02T01:58:27Z")
whoops, that’s “niece.” ---
**Author:** ![axi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f08c70/32.png) [@axi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/axi)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/17 "2003-01-02T02:21:39Z")
Our fatherland is the land of our fathers, which is our land too. If the land is a feminine term, which it often is, then it is referred to as “mother”. However “motherland” is the land of our mothers and it may be feminine or neutral or even masculine itself. In Turkey there is a political party called “Party of the Mother Fatherland” 🙂 The word patrie or patria has a Greek root: the Greek equivalent (patris) denotes something that belongs or is affiliated to the father (pater). ---
**Author:** ![kunoichi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4da419/32.png) [@kunoichi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kunoichi)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/18 "2003-01-02T04:09:31Z")
Well if composers are to be trusted, Bedrich Smetana’s _Ma vlast_ (My Fatherland) refers to his Czech homeland… ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/19 "2003-01-02T06:53:14Z")
The Netherlands also use Fatherland (Vaderland). ---
**Author:** ![Halge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8baadc/32.png) [@Halge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Halge)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/20 "2003-01-02T11:24:50Z")
If I translate our swedish equivalent it comes out, fetusland, which sounds kinda weird. För Kung och Fosterland! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060.md?page=2)