# What countries besides Germany refer to their country as "father" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 1, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060 "2003-01-01T17:27:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/21 "2003-01-02T11:52:30Z")
In Russia, the gender of the country changes, along with most everything else, based on who is in charge of it that week. 🙂 The communists preferred “Rodina” or “Rodina-Mat” in their propaganda, usually translated to “motherland” or simply “country.” http://stalingrad\_1943.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/motherlandcalls.jpg ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/22 "2003-01-02T11:53:55Z")
Oh, right, stupid Tripod. Copy and paste. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/23 "2003-01-02T12:12:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\* “la madre patria”, “the mother fatherland”. Kind of strange if you analyze it. But all languages are strange if you analyze them. \*\* Combining “mother” and “father” in the same concept is kind of neat. More inclusive, more complete. A propos of this, I was reading about the Proto-Uralic language, in which the concept of “people” originated as a compound of the Proto-Uralic words for “woman” and “man”. For example, the Hungarian word for “people” is _nép_, and in Votyak the word for people is _nylpi_. These can be traced back to a Proto-Uralic compound, \*_ningä_ ‘woman’ + \*_pojka_ ‘man’ \> \*_ningäpojka_, ‘people’. In Hungarian, woman is _nö_, man is _fiú_. In Votyak, woman is _nyl_, man is _pi_. Therefore _nép, nylpi_ = ‘people’ (“womanman”). The Arabic word for ‘nation’ is _ummah_, derived from _umm_ ‘mother’. ---
**Author:** ![Coil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Coil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coil)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/24 "2003-01-02T14:26:45Z")
**Hälge** you forgot about Fäderneslandet (the land of the/our fathers). So the country is sometimes desribed as masculine in Sweden. Fäderneslandet is however a rather old and archaich term that is not used very often. A more common expression is Moder Svea (Mother Sweden). ---
**Author:** ![bobk2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@bobk2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobk2)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/25 "2003-01-02T17:28:25Z")
This is a little away from the original intent but…Here in the US I can’t recall the specific term ‘motherland’ or ‘fatherland’ being applied. However we do see ‘Uncle Sam’ employed as a symbol of the country. (We also have ‘Lady Liberty’ but I believe that’s an expression of an ideal, as opposed to a symbol of the nation.) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/26 "2003-01-03T01:51:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by axi \* > \*\*In Turkey there is a political party called “Party of the Mother Fatherland” \*\* The _Anavatan Partisi_. Not really. _Anavatan_ is a compound of the Turkish word _ana_ ‘mother’ and a loanword from Arabic, _watan_, which simply means ‘homeland’. Dictionaries do give the meaning fatherland for _watan_, along with home, homeland, and nation, but it basically means ‘homeland’; it is not associated with the concept of father the way _patria_ is, and translating it as ‘fatherland’ is imposing a foreign, European concept on this Arabic word. ---
**Author:** ![Barks\_dog\_food](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@Barks\_dog\_food](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barks_dog_food)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/27 "2003-01-14T10:41:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hälge \* > \*\*If I translate our swedish equivalent it comes out, fetusland, which sounds kinda weird. > > FÜr Kung och Fosterland! \*\* I think it is fostre like in to raise a child. We use fedrelandet (fedrer=plural form of father)in Norway. ---
**Author:** ![auRa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@auRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auRa)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/28 "2003-01-14T11:56:32Z")
In Finnish, we have a “father’s land” (isänmaa) but a “mother’s tongue” (äidinkieli). Gender equality all the way. 🙂 Like **axi** said, I think “fatherland” is to interpreted as the land of one’s forefathers, rather than as specifically male. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/29 "2003-01-14T15:14:33Z")
As a Spanish native speaker I dare to disagree with **sailor**. **La** patria is the correct form, which indicates that the word is feminine. In Spanish except for the word for country (_el país_) I don’t remember any other word in which one’s land is masculine: la tierra la patria la nación I therefore conclude that yes, those Germans are weird. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nils](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Nils](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nils)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/30 "2003-01-14T15:47:50Z")
@auRa: same thing in German: Vaterland and Muttersprache. In German we have 3 genders der, die, das: der Staat die Nation das Land If this is not gender equality, what else ? (Ok, having no articles at all, like you Finns have, might beat us) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/31 "2003-01-14T16:15:11Z")
**Mighty Girl** is right, but to be fair, the confusion comes because of the derivation from the Latin. “patria” indeed means “of or from the fathers”; yet it is grammatically feminine. When a Latin speaker referred to “terra patria”, he did not mean that the land was their “father”, but that it was the land “_of_ the fathers”. “Terra” itself being in the grammatical feminine, so’s “patria”. Then with the passage of time, by whatever-you-call that figure of speech, the “terra” was dropped as being understood, leaving “patria” by itself to mean “the [grammatically feminine] land of our fathers”. Eventually this has become a concept that does not have a one-word equivalent in English. Of course, Spanish grammatical gender has nothing to do with giving something “manly” or “womanly” attributes. Good thing 'cause I dunno how I would assign those to what looks to me like various formations of land, water and vegetation with a number of people living on top and a government sort of claiming to be in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/32 "2003-01-14T16:24:18Z")
Heh, interesting. In Danish, one also uses the term fatherland (“fædreland”), but mother tongue (“modersmaal”). A very Danish institution - the Carlsberg breweries - has “Laboremus pro Patria”, “Let’s work for the fatherland”, as its motto. And even if a Spaniard insist that his country is a motherland, if we were to discuss it in Danish, we’d say that Spain was his fatherland, like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/33 "2003-01-14T17:22:43Z")
North Korea refers to itself as the “[fatherland](http://www.koreanp.co.jp/pk/120th_issue/99111703..htm).” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/34 "2003-01-15T02:54:58Z")
Actually, here in Latin Am, “madre patria” is normally used in the same sense as the English “mother country”-- the former Metropolitan power. So for us it means Spain. Me, I’m fine either way. My mother is Mrs. Olga Marrero, not a rock protruding from the water in the Greater Antilles. ---
**Author:** ![universe.zip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@universe.zip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/universe.zip)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/35 "2003-01-15T21:16:34Z")
I think this is generally so, in most languages, and my theory is as follows: In a patriarchal society (as most are) you speak of your ancestors as **forefathers** , it is the men who go to war and they fight for their **fatherland**. (Yup, the word exists in English as well, dating back to the 12th century (according to Merriam Webster [http://www.m-w.com](http://www.m-w.com)) , which is why it probably isn´t widely used - possibly the Germanic influence in English, as a haphazard guess. Mother country (and motherland) are younger, however, if I´m not mistaken, the normal term today is native country.) So here we get **Vaterland, patria, patrie, isänmaa, otechestvo, fädernesland…** In the meantime, the women stay at home, and it is (mainly) from them that the children learn their language - their **mother tongue, äidinkieli, Muttersprache, lengua materna, langue maternelle, lingua materna, modertaal, modersmal, mhtrik glessa** (inaccurate transcription of the Greek word with the same meaning)… (not in Russian, though - rodnoi jazik, just as rodina, come from the word for birth) (I know this is simplistic, but the native language is something psychologically associated with your home, not your education, warfare or whatever.) But wait, there´s more! As soon as the native country is not seen as the land you are fighting for, but rather the place you come from, the place where you felt secure, and often - if you have emigrated - miss, it is associated with the caring love of a mother. I don´t know about **mother country** , but in other languages you get things like **la madre patria** , **matushka Rossija (Mother Russia**; actually, matushka is a diminutive, affectionate form of mat, mother), **Moder Svea** , **Mutterland** - and for all you German speakers, think of Bert Brecht´s **“Deutschland, bleiche Mutter”**. This is very often in the context of war, when the country is crying for **her** lost sons. (England is a “she”, by the way…) (exception here: Finnish does not assign a sex to words or concepts, not even in the very limited way English does this (the sun is a “he”, while the moon is a “she”) - it doesn´t have the personal pronouns (he/she) for that. So the only way of expressing this would be via äidinmaa, which, however, could only be used to mean the country your mother came from.) I think there´s some pretty interesting studies in comparative linguistics on this, but I venture to say the psychological component I´ve mentioned here is quite strong - after all, we coin words according to our perception of the world and our feelings. (Though I do quite often wonder what exactly the old Germanic peoples were thinking when they made “carrot” feminine and “apple” masculine… not to mention “girl”, which is neuter… 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![universe.zip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@universe.zip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/universe.zip)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/36 "2003-01-15T21:21:45Z")
come to think of it… pity there aren´t many languages with matriarchal roots around, would be interesting to compare… ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/37 "2003-01-15T23:32:46Z")
Hear, hear. **JRDelirious** explained above what _Madre Patria_\* means. It is the former empire from which the colony split. In the case of Latin America Spain is _la Madre Patria_. Nobody misses Spain (I sure don’t), it is just a poetic and outdated expression that sounds better than Former Colonialist Empire… or something. ---
**Author:** ![universe.zip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@universe.zip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/universe.zip)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/38 "2003-01-16T10:28:17Z")
**Mighty\_Girl** , no offence meant. Okay, then let´s stretch the motherly aspect from something you miss to just something the nation (former colony) was “born” from? You´re right, of course, I thought it might have a double meaning, also used by emigrants in the last few centuries - well, not that a Galician would speak of Spain per se as their home country, but people from other parts of Spain… I was just guessing. You´re the native speaker, so I won´t argue (and anyway, my VOX says the same - should have looked it up yesterday). Sorry for that. Anyway, having a mother doesn´t always mean you miss her… In the other languages cited, however, it has the meaning of native country with slightly poetic connotations. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/39 "2003-01-16T12:26:06Z")
No problema amigo. I don’t get offended over matters of such little relevance. Now, if you have something against coffee keep it to yourself 🙂 When referring to one’s original nation (or the nation of our ancestors) in Spanish we just say “mi patria”, the meaning of which was brilliantly explained above by my quasi-neighbor **JRD**. ---
**Author:** ![universe.zip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@universe.zip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/universe.zip)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060/40 "2003-01-16T15:56:08Z")
vale… as for coffee: the best thing on earth! (gonna make myself another cup of it _right now_ 🙂 ) well, at least I learned something new. Not a synonym for mi patria or mi tierra (a minha terra, if we stick to gallego), but a term that might come in handy…thanks 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-besides-germany-refer-to-their-country-as-father/146060.md?page=3)