# What countries have never had leaders who held high military rank (e.g. general/flag officers)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876 "2015-02-28T19:16:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/41 "2015-03-01T20:19:32Z")
So, based on replies so far, the list of countries that haven’t had a leader with flag rank experience is: Australia Canada Libya Under discussion: Austria India New Zealand Disqualified: Finland France Germany Ireland Sweden United Kingdom United States ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/42 "2015-03-01T20:28:05Z")
King Idris of Libya, though, when he was Emir of Cyrenaica in exile, though, did command guerrilla troops against Italy. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/43 "2015-03-01T20:51:27Z")
I wondered abut that, but coukdn’t tell from the wiki articles how involved he was on the actual military decisions, or was he more of a political leader, delegating authority to military? By contrast, it’s my understanding that Michael Collins (in another sort of fluid situation) played an active military role, in the IRA and later within the provisional government, so I’ve not included Ireland. But, open to correction by someone with a firmer grasp of the Irish Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/44 "2015-03-01T22:26:35Z")
How do you want to count Iceland? In the era since they regained sovereignty, they haven’t had a military for their prime ministers to have served in, except that they briefly tried to establish one during WWII. It didn’t go very far before the UK, and then the US, took over their defense. And they guy who was trying to train the army at that point didn’t become PM. I suppose the early Prime Ministers (either during home rule from 1904-1917, or the 1917-44 Kingdom) could have served in the Danish military. A quick glance at the list suggests they were career politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/45 "2015-03-01T22:54:51Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Disqualified: > > Finland > France > Germany > Ireland > Sweden > United Kingdom > United States I think you can disqualify virtually every country in Latin America. All have been subject to military coups at one point or another. For some of the smaller countries, the main question might be whether a leader actually held a general’s rank in an army rather than being head of the National Guard, say. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/46 "2015-03-02T02:10:14Z")
That is very depressing. Not a surprise, based on my previous thread, but very depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/47 "2015-03-02T02:32:21Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > India since the Brits left? Also my brain is saying some of the African countries after colonial rule ended. They either seemed to go for military or educated men on about a 50/50 basis but that’s just from memory/perception. How do you deal with an independence movement in the colonial era? For example, Mugabe didn’t hold formal military rank, but he led a successful guerrilla movement, which is probably equivalent. And we also run into the issue of coups after independence, which can get very complicated. Idi Amin is a good example. He was a general in the Uganda Army before leading the coup that took him to power. ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/48 "2015-03-02T02:34:52Z")
How about several other relatively young countries, such as: Belgium Estonia Latvia ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/49 "2015-03-02T02:44:32Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > How about several other relatively young countries, such as: > > Belgium > Estonia > Latvia As recently as World War I, King Albert I of Belgium personally led his troops in battle. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/50 "2015-03-02T02:52:41Z")
For the record, here are Latin American countries with examples of at least one leader who held a general’s rank in the armed forces. In most cases they were dictators. Several countries had many such leaders. Mexico: Santa Anna, Huerta Guatemala: Efrian Rios Montt El Salvador: Carlos Humberto Romero Nicaragua: Jose Santos Zelaya Costa Rica: Federico Tinoco Granados Panama: Torrijos, Noriega Colombia: Gustavo Rojas Pinilla Venezuela: Marcos Pérez Jiménez Ecuador: Guillermo Rodríguez Peru: Juan Velasco Alvarado Bolivia: Luis García Meza Tejada Chile: Augusto Pinochet Paraguay: Alfredo Stroessner Argentina: Jorge Rafael Videla Uruguay: Gregorio Conrado Álvarez Brazil: Humberto Castelo Branco Dominican Republic: Rafael Trujillo Cuba: Raul Castro ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/51 "2015-03-02T03:05:02Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > As recently as World War I, King Albert I of Belgium personally led his troops in battle. Thanks I did not know of his military activity. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/52 "2015-03-02T03:10:42Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > … > Using this test, the US, the UK and France, for example, would not be included, since all of them have had generals as their President/Prime Minister at least once (e.g. Washington; Wellington; de Gaulle)… The US has had a few more generals as presidents - Grant and Eisenhower are two obvious examples - both of them famous wartime generals who grabbed the White House as a nice post-war jaunt before retirement. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/53 "2015-03-02T03:20:51Z")
Sure - there’s also Jackson, Harrison and Garfield. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/54 "2015-03-02T03:27:03Z")
And Pierce. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/55 "2015-03-02T03:28:46Z")
In addition to Stalin, Khruschev was a general in the Soviet Army, seeing duty at the battle for Kiev and the siege of Stalingrad. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/56 "2015-03-02T03:45:57Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > The USSR. > **[Marshal of the Soviet Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshal_of_the_Soviet_Union)** > > Marshal of the Soviet Union (Russian: Маршал Советского Союза, romanized: Marshal sovetskogo soyuza, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}pronounced \[ˈmarʂəl sɐˈvʲetskəgə sɐˈjuzə\]) was the second-highest military rank of the Soviet Union. Joseph Stalin wore the uniform and insignia of Marshal after World War II. > The rank of Marshal of th... ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/57 "2015-03-02T03:51:33Z")
South Africa is definitely disqualified as Prime Ministers Louis Botha and Jan Smuts were both generals. Botha actually commanded the South African forces invading German South-West Africa while he was Prime Minister. Interestingly, both men had been Boer generals fighting against the British Empire in the Anglo-Boer War, and subsequently became generals fighting for the British Empire in World War I (and WWII in Smuts’ case). ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/58 "2015-03-02T04:20:55Z")
> [@](#): > > How do you want to count Iceland? It certainly counts. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Terminus Est > As recently as World War I, King Albert I of Belgium personally led his troops in battle. And this, I believe, was the last time a European king led his troops from the front. And, yes, he held rather more than ceremonial power. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/59 "2015-03-02T04:24:26Z")
For Latin America I forgot: Honduras: Oswaldo López Arellano Haiti: Jean-Jacques Dessalines Here’s a [list of countries that have been ruled by military dictatorships.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dictatorship)Most of them were probably ruled by generals, but a few were led by officers of lower official rank. For example, the Suriname military coup was led by a group of 16 sergeants. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876/60 "2015-03-02T05:46:19Z")
None of the Indian PM’s since 1947 have ever held any military rank of any sort. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-have-never-had-leaders-who-held-high-military-rank-e-g-general-flag-officers/713876.md?page=4)