# What countries recognized the privateer as legitimate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 8, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185 "2011-05-08T19:54:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/1 "2011-05-08T19:54:01Z")
A privateer was recognized by France, England, Spain and other countries as a legitimate war tool as opposed to a pirate who does not have the backing of a national government. What countries recognized privateers as a legitimate tool of war as opposed to just a pirate. Being a Privateer did have an advantage over being a pirate . ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/2 "2011-05-08T19:59:29Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > A privateer was recognized by France, England, Spain and other countries as a legitimate war tool as opposed to a pirate who does not have the backing of a national government. What countries recognized privateers as a legitimate tool of war as opposed to just a pirate. Being a Privateer did have an advantage over being a pirate . Are you sure about Spain? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/3 "2011-05-08T20:04:29Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > Are you sure about Spain? I thought so, but it may not be so. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/4 "2011-05-08T20:19:52Z")
Spain used privateers. Two more countries you didn’t list were the United States, and during the Civil War, the Confederacy. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/5 "2011-05-08T20:23:39Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Spain used privateers. Two more countries you didn’t list were the United States, and during the Civil War, the Confederacy. I read a book on the Confederacy privateers, which is why i thought of this distinction in the first place. They used the special rules for privateers to avoid being captured in port. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/6 "2011-05-08T21:37:12Z")
Given that the Dutch were a major naval power in the 17th century and hated the Spanish, they probably some sort of privateering effort. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/7 "2011-05-08T21:41:03Z")
Would modern day Somalia count? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/8 "2011-05-08T22:55:12Z")
Famously, you also had the Marathi privateer Kanhoji Angria and the Turkish privateer Murat Reis. Likewise, even though we call the Barbary Pirates pirates, they were in effect privateers, working first for the Ottoman Empire and then for their quasi-independent city states. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/9 "2011-05-08T22:55:59Z")
I think the general rule is that every country recognizes their own privateers, and considers everyone else’s to be dirty despicable pirates. ---
**Author:** ![AHarris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@AHarris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHarris)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/10 "2011-05-08T22:57:58Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Would modern day Somalia count? No, as far as I know there isn’t any evidence that the Somali government is supporting the pirates. The problem in Somalia is that there isn’t any governmental authority with the ability to crack down on pirates (or enforce law and order in general). ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/11 "2011-05-08T23:01:29Z")
early 19th century America, including both United States as such and the Confederacy for as long as it existed. E.g. privateers were basically the only sort of American naval activity against the British during the war of 1812. ETA: **Captain Amazing** beat me to it. ETA2: see here for mention of Dutch privateers [Piracy and Privateering in the Golden Age Netherlands | The English Historical Review | Oxford Academic](http://ehr.oxfordjournals.org/content/CXXII/499/1407.extract) ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/12 "2011-05-08T23:14:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think the general rule is that every country recognizes their own privateers, and considers everyone else’s to be dirty despicable pirates. No. That’s the point of being a Privateer, if your captured by an enemy, your taken prisoner of war, as opposed to being hanged as was done to pirates. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/13 "2011-05-08T23:35:07Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > No. That’s the point of being a Privateer, if your captured by an enemy, your taken prisoner of war, as opposed to being hanged as was done to pirates. Not generally. The countries being preyed on by privateers generally didn’t appreciate the legal distinction, and generally if they were captured by the enemy, they didn’t have a long lifespan afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/14 "2011-05-09T14:07:21Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > early 19th century America, including both United States as such and the Confederacy for as long as it existed. > > E.g. privateers were basically the only sort of American naval activity against the British during the war of 1812. What? How about [USS Constitution defeats HMS Guerriere](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution_vs_HMS_Guerriere). [USS United States defeats HMS Macedonian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_United_States_vs_HMS_Macedonian). [USS Hornet sinks HMS Peacock](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_HMS_Peacock). [HMS Shannon defeats USS Chesapeake](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_USS_Chesapeake). There were plenty of battles involving US Navy ships in the war of 1812. In general, privateers don’t fight enemy warships (by choice anyway) - they raid enemy merchant shipping to make money. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/15 "2011-05-09T14:18:40Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > No. That’s the point of being a Privateer, if your captured by an enemy, your taken prisoner of war, as opposed to being hanged as was done to pirates. One had a license from one’s government to attack enemy shipping. Foreign governments recognized the enemy country’s license, at least according to Patrick O’Brien. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/16 "2011-05-09T14:24:22Z")
This reminds me of the _West Wing_ episode where Mrs. Bartlet is on fire because her Daughters of the American Revolution membership linked to an ancestor who was a ‘privateer’. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/17 "2011-05-09T14:26:50Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > This reminds me of the _West Wing_ episode where Mrs. Bartlet is on fire because her Daughters of the American Revolution membership linked to an ancestor who was a ‘privateer’. I believe the term “Letter of Marque” was preferred. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/18 "2011-05-09T16:33:23Z")
According to > **[Letter of marque](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque)** > > A letter of marque and reprisal (French: lettre de marque; lettre de course) was a government license in the Age of Sail that authorized a private person, known as a privateer or corsair, to attack and capture vessels of a nation at war with the issuer. After capturing, the privateers could bring the case of that prize before their own admiralty court for condemnation and transfer of ownership to the privateer. A letter of marque and reprisal would include permission to cross an international b... The United States could, in theory, authorize privateers today, since the US never signed a treaty renouncing privateering and the US Constitution specifically authorizes Congress to issue Letters of Marque and Reprisal. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/19 "2011-05-09T16:35:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > One had a license from one’s government to attack enemy shipping. Foreign governments recognized the enemy country’s license, at least according to Patrick O’Brien. 🙂 Tell that to Jean Fleury, hanged by the Spanish in 1527, Bernard Speirdyke, hanged by the Spanish in 1670, the aptly named William Death, who was shot by the French in 1756 after his ship was captured by the French, and Abraham Lincoln, who issued a proclamation at the beginning of the Civil War that all Confederate commerce raiders would be charged with piracy and hanged, only to back down when Jefferson Davis threatened to hang any captured American sailors. If you were lucky, a letter of marque would at least keep you from being executed by your own side. If you were Captain Kidd. . . ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185/20 "2011-05-10T00:21:06Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Tell that to Jean Fleury, hanged by the Spanish in 1527, Bernard Speirdyke, hanged by the Spanish in 1670, the aptly named William Death, who was shot by the French in 1756 after his ship was captured by the French, and Abraham Lincoln, who issued a proclamation at the beginning of the Civil War that all Confederate commerce raiders would be charged with piracy and hanged, only to back down when Jefferson Davis threatened to hang any captured American sailors. One could as easily cite slaughters of prisoners of war, from Napoleon at Jaffa, to Fort Pillow, to Malmedy. That wouldn’t demonstrate that killing POW’s was standard and accepted practice among modern Western nations. Generalizing about captured privateers is difficult. Spain, it’s true, seldom gave quarter. For many centuries Spain had the most lucrative commerce, and a weak navy to protect it, and had more reason then most countries to hate privateers. Other countries varied over time. In the Civil War, the American government _did_ threaten to execute Confederate privateers, but it wasn’t because the US rejected letters of marque on principle, it was because it didn’t recognize the Confederacy. Lincoln did back down, fearing retaliation, but even if he hadn’t he might have had trouble sustaining piracy convictions in the Supreme Court. The British had the same issue with Americans during the Revolutionary War. They threatened to hang, but never did, but they didn’t grant POW status either, leaving the prisoners in a Guantanamo-like legal limbo. Considering conditions in British prison camps, hanging might have been an act of mercy. During the War of 1812, captured Americans faced the added danger of impressment. But in general, of the thousands of privateers captured in the Seven Years War, Revolutionary War, and Napoleonic Wars, relatively few ended up hanging from a yardarm. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-countries-recognized-the-privateer-as-legitimate/581185.md?page=2)