# What country do we have to go to war with to get reasonable gasoline prices?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425 "2004-04-11T05:39:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chefIL11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chefIL11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chefIL11)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/1 "2004-04-11T05:39:04Z")
We’ve gone to war with iraq but no relief… if we went to war with any country that would bring gas prices down… which would it be? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/2 "2004-04-11T05:54:50Z")
I don’t recall the reasons we went to war in Iraq being for reasonable gas prices… In fact, the CPA planned on financing the rebuilding of Iraq with oil sales… unfortunately, they didn’t account for the resistance blowing up their pipelines, and are operating well below their expected efficiency. In any case, the Iraq situation isn’t “free oil” for the US (though it may be a bonanza for US companies who are contracted to run the refineries and such). Viewing it as such is simplifying the matters in a way detrimental to the argument. If we wanted secured, free oil, we should invade Canada and Mexico. They’re closer, and we import more from them anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/3 "2004-04-11T06:17:22Z")
Canada would be a poor choice. Our reserves will be all gone by mid-2005. Honest. Hey, stop staring north like that! ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/4 "2004-04-11T06:19:44Z")
This is probably a little simplistic but I think we have paid an artificially low price for petroleum products, mainly the motor fuels gasoline and diesel, almost since the beginning. We financed the cost of finding new sources through tax relief in the form of the “depletion allowance” rather than paying for it by the gallon when we bought fuel. So, it seems to me, that over the years cheap fuel has distorted our transportation system into one that relies mainly on private vehicles instead of railways for intercity and busses or streetcars for city travel. Now, we have run our supplies down and have to import much of our fuel from countries who do finance their oil exploration out of current receipts of the sale of their oil. And by the way. Going on $2.50 or $3.00 a gallon bugs me too. OK, have at me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/5 "2004-04-11T06:57:57Z")
This handy [chart](http://www.torontogasprices.com/retail_price_chart.asp?city1=Calgary&city2=USA+Average&city3=Canada+Average&period=1&unit=CAN+c%2FL&num=14) makes me wonder what all the complaining is about. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/6 "2004-04-11T07:00:20Z")
> [@The Tooth](#): > > This handy [chart](http://www.torontogasprices.com/retail_price_chart.asp?city1=Calgary&city2=USA+Average&city3=Canada+Average&period=1&unit=CAN+c%2FL&num=14) makes me wonder what all the complaining is about. That handy chart makes me wonder why people are surprised that things cost more when their government taxes everything to high hell. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/7 "2004-04-11T07:04:10Z")
Who’s surprised, and what does that have to do with anything? Gas is cheap in America. Why are people in America complaining about high gas prices? ---
**Author:** ![mr\_moonlight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@mr\_moonlight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr_moonlight)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/8 "2004-04-11T08:18:00Z")
The constantly-declining value of the dollar makes everything seem more expensive than it really is. See [here](http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/fsheets/RealMogasPrices.html) for an inflation-adjusted historical graph of US gasoline prices. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/9 "2004-04-11T08:21:36Z")
Haha - the O.P should move to the UK, and would _then_ have high prices to worry about! btw - please don’t invade Scotland - we do have oil, but oh _really_ not enough for the U.SA. to invade. Honest. (Celyn wondering where to hide) ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/10 "2004-04-11T08:25:55Z")
Reasonable gas prices would be about 4 or 5 dollars a gallon, not the mere pittance we pay now. To achieve that, I imagine we’d have to go to war with ourselves. A civil war, I guess-- to vanquish those that think that as Americans we are somehow entitled to unrealistically cheap gasoline. We have some of the cheapest gas in the industrialized world. We also have terrible public trasportation in most of our country. See any connection? ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/11 "2004-04-11T11:51:17Z")
You can get all the reasonably priced gas you want, right this minute. Drive up to any gas station in the US, and say you want to pay $8 per gallon - I guarantee they’ll accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/12 "2004-04-11T12:08:00Z")
Invade the Bush Republic and take 'em out… should drop prices pretty quick. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/13 "2004-04-11T12:09:09Z")
Relatively cheap is not a problem for anyone. However, cheap fuel _and_ universal health care is. Or cheap fuel _and_, say, less social disenfranchisment and better State education is. Or . . . In other words, is a misconception to say the US has cheaper anything than anywhere else, as a general proposition it’s more accurate to say it has a different kind of tax structure \> personal cost structure. If you can find anyone who thinks cheap fuel is a better than universal healthcare I’ll find you a lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/14 "2004-04-11T12:37:12Z")
> [@London\_Calling](#): > > If you can find anyone who thinks cheap fuel is a better than universal healthcare I’ll find you a lunatic. Ah, but after the apocolypse when the you _need_ cheap gas to escape from mad biker gangs with Aussie accents, who’ll be the lunatic then, hmm? ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/15 "2004-04-11T13:41:48Z")
That’s the unfortunate side effect of democracy. Any politician who wants to prepare America for the fuel prices we will be paying in a few years will guarantee being voted out of office. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/16 "2004-04-11T13:44:45Z")
**Zagadka said:** > [@](#): > > In fact, the CPA planned on financing the rebuilding of Iraq with oil sales… unfortunately, they didn’t account for the resistance blowing up their pipelines, and are operating well below their expected efficiency. There was concern that oil facilities would be damaged, just as in the first gulf war. The military worked to secure the oil fields quickly, and the oil fields are operating at their expected efficiencies. (It’s worth noting that the Iraqi gov’t either couldn’t, or wouldn’t, keep up investment in it’s oil producing infrastructure. As a result it’s infrastructure is poorly maintained and need of billions for improvements.) Iraqi oil output is at pre-war levels. Nonethesless, as **London\_Calling** pointed out, the cost of gas in the US is not the result of Iraqi oil output (after all OPEC members could simply raise output if they chose to) but a function of how individual countries fund their governments. In the USA, we choose low fuel prices, as a higher priority over other things like universal healthcare. Fuel costs are a result of where taxes are levied. (and where they are not!) It doesn’t help that we consume a disproportionate amount of the world’s fuels, and our dependence on foreign oil is no less, as a percentage, than it was 25 years ago. Think about that when you’re writing the downpayment check on your Lincoln Navigator… ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/17 "2004-04-11T14:28:55Z")
I’m assuming **Johnnyt27** meant, “Assuming we start the _ **next** _ war using “We Want Oil” as the overt reason, which country should that be to minimize prices for the U.S. consumer?” Zipping through this hasily-found [table](http://www.cnie.org/nle/crsreports/energy/eng-72.cfm) and doing a quick sort-by-reserves-divided-by-(distance\*size-of-military) yields: **Mexico**. Remember the Alamo. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/18 "2004-04-11T14:40:11Z")
Kuwait. It’d only take a few billion in military hardware. Or Venezuela ---
**Author:** ![Hilde\_Andrea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hilde\_Andrea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilde_Andrea)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/19 "2004-04-11T15:11:28Z")
> [@Johnnyt27](#): > > We’ve gone to war with iraq but no relief… if we went to war with any country that would bring gas prices down… which would it be? Or Norway… but ït could be a little difficult finding a reason for starting a war against one of the countries which is most friendly to the USA, or what? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425/20 "2004-04-11T15:59:37Z")
> [@Hilde Andrea](#): > > Or Norway…\*\* but ït could be a little difficult finding a reason for starting a war\*\*[bold added] against one of the countries which is most friendly to the USA, or what? Hell no! Just get people scared and then lie. Nothin’ to it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-country-do-we-have-to-go-to-war-with-to-get-reasonable-gasoline-prices/239425.md?page=2)