# What counts as clothing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** fashion-clothing\ **Created:** [April 14, 2025, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054 "2025-04-14T22:55:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/61 "2025-04-16T16:46:11Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I still wonder if … accessories (pouches and such) came first with clothes defined as items that cover emerging to complement them That’s a point, I think. The sort of material needed to make many types of carrybag is the same sort of material that can readily be turned into clothing. And while the functional usefulness for clothing seems obvious to those of us who are entirely used to having it available to protect us from excess cold, excess heat, thorns, and so on – it was probably a whole lot less obvious to people who were used to living without any. Whereas the usefulness of a way to carry more than could be held in two hands, and for that matter of a way to carry anything at all additional when one arm was holding a baby and the other a digging stick and now what do you do with the stuff you dug up? dig only what you can put in your belly, raw? Oh, for a sling bag/fanny pack/anything at all you could put those tubers in and tie them to your body somehow! But then once you’ve figured out how to make a bag out of animal skin or big leaves or whatever and tie it to you – so many other things that could be done with that! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/62 "2025-04-16T20:47:08Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > From what I’ve gathered the function of decoration of the body preceded the protection of it by other than shelter. Ochre likely served a protective role too, as a sunscreen, antimicrobial agent and insect-repellant ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/63 "2025-04-16T20:54:52Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I’m gonna nitpick you on the sweet potatoes, and probably on the hibiscus flowers. I don’t usually hear the latter referred to, but I’d call them edible flowers, not fruits. And I hear/see sweet potatoes referred to all the time, and I’ve never heard anybody refer to them as a fruit. Sweet potatoes have the same claim to fruitdom that rhubarb does: You can make a pie out of it. And hibiscus is often the first ingredient in “fruit flavoring”. For strawberries, meanwhile, the actual fruit is the little white things on the surface of the juicy red thing. The juicy red thing is actually a modified stem. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Whereas the usefulness of a way to carry more than could be held in two hands, and for that matter of a way to carry anything at all additional when one arm was holding a baby and the other a digging stick and now what do you do with the stuff you dug up? I wonder if the basket might have preceded the bag as a carrying container. A functional basket is easier to make from easily-accessible raw materials than a functional bag, but given suitable materials, a bag is easier to conceptualize. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/64 "2025-04-16T20:56:34Z")
You might enjoy the podcast I mentioned before, it’s called The Ancients, and the podcast date is June 8, 2022, “The Origins of Clothing”. The guest posited something similar to you, noting that decoration via clothing was likely due to the fact that clothing prevented people from seeing your decorated skin. Gist being people started wearing things to stay warm, made them pretty because we have to be pretty, then got so used to it, going back to naked felt weird. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/65 "2025-04-16T21:17:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Sweet potatoes have the same claim to fruitdom that rhubarb does: You can make a pie out of it You can make a pie out of about anything; pie fillings don’t need to be fruit. I often make them using winter squash. Some people make plain custard pies, no fruit. Some people make meat pies. Rhubarb, for most people who like it, has a fruit-like flavor. Winter squash and sweet potatoes don’t. > [@Chronos](#): > > And hibiscus is often the first ingredient in “fruit flavoring” Didn’t know that. Thanks for info. > [@Chronos](#): > > I wonder if the basket might have preceded the bag as a carrying container. A functional basket is easier to make from easily-accessible raw materials than a functional bag, but given suitable materials, a bag is easier to conceptualize I suspect the first may have been hollow shells or gourds, and/or animal bladders washed out. The latter have the advantage that you can carry liquids in them. But the thing about any of those, by themselves, and also of the basket, is that you need a hand to carry them – they let you carry more than you can carry in a hand; but the real trick is to get your hands free, whether to carry something else or to hold a weapon or to climb, by tying the thing on to your body. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/66 "2025-04-16T21:39:34Z")
Before hunters started wearing furs for protection against the elements, I suspect they wore them to deceive their prey. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/67 "2025-04-16T21:58:19Z")
There’s another good theory. Fresh pelts would also disguise their scent. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/68 "2025-04-17T01:18:40Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Before hunters started wearing furs for protection against the elements, I suspect they wore them to deceive their prey. If you’ve just killed an animal large enough to hide yourself in it’s skin, you probably want to finish eating it before you hunt another one. Unless you live in a very large social group. I have a friend who spent some time trecking through Mongolia. His group rode horses and took a flock of sheep with them. Every three days they killed a sheep and cooked it, and ate fresh mutton. The next day, they cubed the leftovers and cooked them again. The third day they made hash and cooked it again. He said it was pretty nasty by the third day. So i think that right after killing one big animal, killing another big animal isn’t a high priority. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/69 "2025-04-17T01:40:23Z")
I think a group plans for its next kill even as it enjoys the spoils of the first. Save the hide. Use it for both smell and visual camouflage on the next hunt. Discover that it makes a nice blanket. A place to sit. A cape that declares you the one who made the kill. Looks cool! ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/70 "2025-04-17T04:49:37Z")
From AP News [headline](https://apnews.com/article/water-bottle-designs-options-hydration-b20eea81fe0ff75a68242122907dd920): > [@](#): > > # That water bottle you’re carrying says a lot more than ‘hydration’ I wouldn’t count them as “clothing” but reading the article, it looks like there are wearable bottles, so perhaps an accessory. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/71 "2025-04-17T04:53:45Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > So i think that right after killing one big animal, killing another big animal isn’t a high priority Human hunters can be quite wasteful. They might kill a large animal for just its liver. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/72 "2025-04-17T12:44:01Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > My dad wore a belt and nothing else as a Navy officer At times, while working, my dad wore nothing else. He was an officer. He wore an officers belt. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/73 "2025-04-17T13:23:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Sweet potatoes have the same claim to fruitdom that rhubarb does: You can make a pie out of it. And hibiscus is often the first ingredient in “fruit flavoring”. You can make a pie out of steak and kidneys, that doesn’t mean they are fruits. Sweet potatoes are usually eaten as part of a savoury course and no one thinks of them as fruit, whereas rhubarb is primarily eaten as a dessert and is sold in the fruit section. > [@Chronos](#): > > For strawberries, meanwhile, the actual fruit is the little white things on the surface of the juicy red thing. The juicy red thing is actually a modified stem. It’s a part of the plant that is ‘deliberately’ made sweet and tasty to encourage animals to eat it and spread the seeds, so it’s functionally a fruit even if it’s not made of the same parts as a normal fruit. > [@Chronos](#): > > I wonder if the basket might have preceded the bag as a carrying container. A functional basket is easier to make from easily-accessible raw materials than a functional bag, but given suitable materials, a bag is easier to conceptualize. I tried googling, but it seems like there just isn’t much evidence. I did find this about the earliest evidence for clothing: > **[When did humans start wearing clothes?](https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/when-did-humans-start-wearing-clothes)** > > Clothes don't survive the way artifacts made of stone, bone and other hard materials do, so scientists have to get creative to answer this question. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/74 "2025-04-17T13:24:52Z")
I assume by “officer’s belt” you mean a belt that holds various types of equipment but is separate from the belt holding up one’s trousers. I have to ask, exactly what sort of work was he doing when he was naked except for the belt? Because while I know there are cultures/situations where little or no clothing is worn, it’s hard for be to imagine any military organization being OK with its members being naked on duty, when they expect such precision on exactly where the insignia is placed on a uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/75 "2025-04-17T13:39:14Z")
That was kind of my reaction, too. The only work I could think of that involves being naked except for a military belt involves disco music and stuffing dollar bills into the belt. But I am guessing I am visualizing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/76 "2025-04-17T13:40:37Z")
You wouldn’t want to wear a fresh animal pelt for camouflage, precisely because of the smell. Sure, a deer hide might smell like deer, but it’ll smell like dead deer. Most prey animals have an instinctive fear of the smell of dead animals. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/77 "2025-04-17T22:55:32Z")
I mean a belt with an officer’s buckle, indicating that he was an officer. > [@doreen](#): > > it’s hard for me to imagine any military organization It’s hard for me to imagine that anybody cares about officer insignia, but I know better. Of course, just wearing an “officer” insignia doesn’t indicate rank, but perhaps when you see a naked kid without any higher rank indicated, “ensign” would be the default anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/78 "2025-04-17T23:05:39Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Sweet potatoes are usually eaten as part of a savoury course and no one thinks of them as fruit, whereas rhubarb is primarily eaten as a dessert and is sold in the fruit section. I realize we are in different countries and on different continents, but in the US, especially in the South, sweet potato pie, a dessert is often enjoyed as a culmination to a Sunday or holiday meal, like pumpkin pie is served in other regions. It can be very hard to tell apart a sweet potato pie from a pumpkin pie. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/79 "2025-04-17T23:22:47Z")
I don’t think that makes either pumpkins or sweet potatoes a fruit in the culinary sense, though. (Pumpkins of course are fruit in the botanical sense; sweet potatoes aren’t a fruit in either sense.) Not everything eaten for dessert is a fruit. (Ice cream, anybody?) Not everything put in a pie is a fruit. Not even if it’s a sweet pie. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054/80 "2025-04-17T23:33:19Z")
If I understand you, your father was working while wearing an ordinary hold-up-your-pants belt with an officer’ s buckle but no pants or anything else? I’m not sure what the “naked kid” has to do with anything. I beg you, please tell me what kind of work he was doing before I lose my mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-clothing/1017054.md?page=5)