# What counts as 'hate speech'? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 26, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445 "2011-12-26T18:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SDMBKL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdmbkl/32/7297_2.png) [@SDMBKL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SDMBKL)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/1 "2011-12-26T18:29:50Z")
Are there certain qualifications for one to report a ‘hate speech’ vs. ‘a harsh criticism’ of a certain religion? Where do the moderators/administrators draw a line between a harsh criticism of a certain religion and a vitriolic hate speech against a certain religion? I have recently reported a post of what I perceive to be hate speech; I am not sure what the moderators would think, but I think this post is off-topic, disrespectful, insulting, and harshly judgmental against Christians, as if _all Christians_ behave in a stereotypical manner. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/2 "2011-12-26T18:46:13Z")
It’s my impression that to reach the level of “hate speech,” if there is such a thing, the comments have to be directed at a specific individual on the board. Thus, a statement like “All Zoroastrians are morons” will fly, but “ **Zoroastrian** is a moron for believing the things he does” doesn’t. You will also find that there are a number (a very large number) of _militant_ atheists on the board as well. To them, any statement towards religion is likely to be “disrespectful, insulting, and harshly judgmental.” Off-topic you might get traction on. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/3 "2011-12-26T19:42:56Z")
“All christians are stupid arseholes” isn’t hate speech. “All christians should be killed” is, as is “All christians rape baby lemurs”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/4 "2011-12-26T20:41:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > “All christians are stupid arseholes” isn’t hate speech. “All christians should be killed” is, as is “All christians rape baby lemurs”. The last one is not hate speech. From the Registration Agreement: > [@](#): > > You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. We recognize that this rule cannot be strictly applied in discussions of war, capital punishment and the like but urge users to express themselves in moderate terms nonetheless. If we tell you to refrain from behavior that we regard as uncivil, do so or face revocation of your posting privileges. Emphasis added. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/5 "2011-12-26T20:43:00Z")
Then the registration agreement needs to be updated!!!11!!ONEONE _Won’t someone think of the baby lemurs?!_ ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/6 "2011-12-26T21:10:00Z")
The moderators don’t invoke the “hate speech” criteria very often. Usually, the persons offending such a rule are also violating other rules, such as insulting other posters, trolling, and generally being a jerk. We don’t want to try to define “hate speech” – we could write volumes and not cover it. Basically, when discussion crosses the line into racism (for example), that’s when the charge of “hate speech” might occur. Like the question of what’s “not safe for workplace,” we really don’t want to have specific definitions, but we know it when we see it. If there’s a discussion on the role of Christianity in the depopulation of the lemurs, and you’re worried that your comment may be viewed as “hate speech,” you can pretty much relax. Generally, people don’t inadvertently slip into hate speech. Yes, sure, someone can inadvertently make a racist remark; when it’s pointed out to them, they’re embarrassed and apologetic. Hate-speechers tend to be racists at heart (or similarly anti-ethnicity or sexists or whatever) and usually offend in other ways. So, as I say, we rarely use the “hate speech” hammer. Basically, as with everything else, if you think you spot hate speech, report it (hit the little ! in the red triangle in the upper right corner of the post) and let the mods handle it. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/7 "2011-12-26T21:12:21Z")
Is “attention whore” used anywhere but in The Pit considered “hate speech”, **C K**? Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/8 "2011-12-26T22:33:47Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > Is “attention whore” used anywhere but in The Pit considered “hate speech”, **C K**? > > Thanks > > Q Why would it be? It’s not wishing harm on anyone. It’s just your everyday, garden variety insult. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/9 "2011-12-26T22:54:14Z")
Okay. Then no probs. It’s just that a mod intervened before when a post of mine was called “Münchausen by internet”, and it’s the same person. I’m not being a crybaby about this, because I did PM this person and offered to discuss his beef with me, but they’re a hit and run poster, and I’m fucking tired of it. Basically. Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/10 "2011-12-26T23:44:25Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > Is “attention whore” used anywhere but in The Pit considered “hate speech”, **C K**? > > Thanks > > Q > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why would it be? It’s not wishing harm on anyone. It’s just your everyday, garden variety insult. Yabbut, those are prohibited anywhere except in the Pit. I read the post, which was in MPSIMS, and which I took as a direct insult against **Quasi**. It was clueless, classless, and violated the “Don’t Be a Jerk” Rule. If it were directed at me, and the poster had a habit of harassing me, I’d report it. It should have a mod note against it at least. It’s up to **Quasi** if he chooses to pursue it, though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/11 "2011-12-27T00:15:12Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Yabbut, those are prohibited anywhere except in the Pit. I read the post, which was in MPSIMS, and which I took as a direct insult against **Quasi**. It was clueless, classless, and violated the “Don’t Be a Jerk” Rule. If it were directed at me, and the poster had a habit of harassing me, I’d report it. It should have a mod note against it at least. > > It’s up to **Quasi** if he chooses to pursue it, though. Was it hate speech? That was the question. If you report a post, and the mods don’t take action, you can always e-mail them and ask why or start a thread in this forum. The latter action will, of course, drag you into the foray publicly. If that’s a problem, the former action is still available. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/12 "2011-12-27T00:41:47Z")
I don’t mind criticism. Ever. But I tried to reach out to this person after he/she had already been warned twice by **Twicks**. I asked, “What’s our problem, and how can I help?”, because I’m way beyond attacking anyone anymore. If this person had said, “I’m getting tired of your posts…” I would have asked what I could change. And… the last couple of times this person got called on me, I didn’t even realize it. It was a very vigilant mod who saw what he/she said, and gave them a warning. This is my conversation with friends and I say what’s on my mind. If anyone has a problem with that, then I will _for sure_ ask them in a pm/e-mail what’s wrong and what I can do to help. If someone calls me an “attention whore”, then they’re giving me WAY to much credit!🙂 I can “whore” much better than they notice! The “Fighting Quasi” days are over. Don’t have time for that anymore, okay? (Except when it comes to the animals or my close friends, not neccesarily in that order) Sometimes I DO wind up in The Pit or in Debates, but it’s just a slip-up, and I try to get outta there asap! So send me a pm and let me know what I wrote that pissed you off. I’ll always answer. Thanks Bill ---
**Author:** ![SDMBKL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdmbkl/32/7297_2.png) [@SDMBKL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SDMBKL)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/13 "2011-12-27T01:31:34Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > “All christians are stupid arseholes” isn’t hate speech. “All christians should be killed” is, as is “All christians rape baby lemurs”. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > The last one is not hate speech. > > From the Registration Agreement: > > You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. **Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated.** Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. We recognize that this rule cannot be strictly applied in discussions of war, capital punishment and the like but urge users to express themselves in moderate terms nonetheless. If we tell you to refrain from behavior that we regard as uncivil, do so or face revocation of your posting privileges. > > Emphasis added. You don’t consider “All Christians are stupid arseholes” as hate speech? Replace “Christians” with the three-letter f-word in the English language (I am not going to write here) and reread the sentence. You will then find that the new sentence has a homophobic context. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/14 "2011-12-27T01:36:41Z")
So now you consider “Christians” to be a slanderous label? How obvious of you. Not **all** Christians are stupid arseholes. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/15 "2011-12-27T01:49:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Was it hate speech? That was the question. > > If you report a post, and the mods don’t take action, you can always e-mail them and ask why or start a thread in this forum. The latter action will, of course, drag you into the foray publicly. If that’s a problem, the former action is still available. Well, not hate speech, according to the [rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7697044&postcount=10), which define it as being “directed against any race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, or gender,” but it’s still against the rules forbidding personal attacks outside of the BBQ Pit. > [@](#): > > Generally, you may not directly insult or personally attack other posters. The strictness of this rule varies a bit by forum, but the basic rule is that you should attack what the other person says, not the other person. This rule applies to all insults, including jokes and quotes from books & movies, as others may not get the joke. Using smilies (e.g., "You’re a jerk ") does not make insults okay. > > The only exception is the forum called The BBQ Pit, where flaming other posters is permitted, although even the Pit does have rules. Please read the Forum Rules for the BBQ Pit before posting there. > > And I notice it did get a mod note, so I won’t continue the hijack. > > Hate speech directed against any race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, or gender is a violation of our rules in any forum, as outlined in the Registration Agreement. And, again, I’d report it. Although it’s up to the recipient of the attack to decide how far they want to pursue it. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/16 "2011-12-27T01:56:34Z")
Lost the edit window - I noticed the post in question did get a mod note, so that’s all I have to say on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/17 "2011-12-27T02:03:00Z")
> [@SDMBKL](#): > > You don’t consider “All Christians are stupid arseholes” as hate speech? Replace “Christians” with the three-letter f-word in the English language (I am not going to write here) and reread the sentence. > > You will then find that the new sentence has a homophobic context. :rolleyes: No, as it’s neither threatening them nor falsely accusing them of crimes, it’s simply insulting them. Which is not hate speech. For that matter, saying “I hate christians” is not hate speech. I should point out here that I’m discussing general usage of the term “hate speech”, not necessarily the specific use the mods here have. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/18 "2011-12-27T04:11:59Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Well, not hate speech, according to the [rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7697044&postcount=10), which define it as being “directed against any race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, or gender,” but it’s still against the rules forbidding personal attacks outside of the BBQ Pit. Which is exactly what I said in post #8. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/19 "2011-12-27T05:04:25Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > _Won’t someone think of the baby lemurs?!_ No. I hate them. I dunno exactly which sentence set off the OP, of course, but I can casually picture a statement along the lines of “Christianity is a vapid, barbaric rationalization for cruelty and corruption” which a Christian might find grossly offensive even if the statement is, to some extent, perfectly defensible. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445/20 "2011-12-27T14:50:29Z")
[Mod hat off] On a personal level, I consider stereotyping statements such as "All Christians are … " [replace “Christians” with any race, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc] to be silly over-simplifications, factually incorrect, and likely bigoted. Any large group of people will have members who are NOT whatever the stereotype is.\* - OK, there’s an exception: “All Norwegians are human beings,” but that’s pretty lame. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-counts-as-hate-speech/607445.md?page=2)