# What Crimes Should Be Punishable By the Death Penalty **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577 "2011-07-28T02:02:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/61 "2011-07-28T11:39:23Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I don’t see how taking the life of a man who has taken the life of another is unethical. In theory, I would have no problem with that (depending on the circumstances of the crime, etc, etc…). But justice being flawed, there are innocents who end up with a lethal injection (or shortened as we used to do). That’s the fundamental reason why I’m against death penalty. At least, someone jailed has a possibility to be exonerated and freed if there was a mistake (plus the death row for years must be a particularly awful experience). Which means that for instance I don’t care if a death sentence is applied to say, Saddam Hussein, or would be to the recent Norwegian mass-murderer (providing he isn’t insane), since in those cases there are no conceivable doubt that they are guilty as hell. However, a significant number of oponents to death penalty are absolutely opposed to it, even if somehow we could be totally certain that the accused did the crime. The basis being that killing is wrong, and hence that society shouldn’t fall as low as the criminals it intends to punish. Note that it seems that in this Norwegian case again, the people reacted more or less like that. Instead of calling for his blood, the consensus expressed seems to be “let’s punish him by being even more tolerant and open as a society” which, I must admit, is a very healthy and admirable position, that I wouldn’t see here in France, let alone in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/62 "2011-07-28T11:45:11Z")
None. I don’t think it is morally justifiable in any circumstances, no matter how crazy a concocted situation is presented. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/63 "2011-07-28T11:59:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Apparently most defense attorneys don’t like defending people in death penalty cases, so such defendants get only the worst of the worst. Do attorneys dislike representing people in death penalty cases, or do they just dislike representing people accused of murder? > [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Not good enough, no. But the line has to be drawn somewhere… You’re not “drawing the line” here - you’re treating the symptom instead of the disease. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/64 "2011-07-28T12:04:03Z")
None under the system as it currently is. With certain reforms, I could support the availability of the death penalty in cases of particularly heinous murders. The death penalty is irrevocable and I want to be as certain as scientifically possible of someone’s guilt before executing them. A good start would be removing the option entirely without DNA evidence. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/65 "2011-07-28T12:20:11Z")
I would add rape of a child under 12 to the current list. Kennedy was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/66 "2011-07-28T12:32:07Z")
Second offense drunk driving ater having killed someone the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/67 "2011-07-28T12:57:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Apparently most defense attorneys don’t like defending people in death penalty cases, so such defendants get only the worst of the worst. Have a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/68 "2011-07-28T12:59:29Z")
To answer the OP: no crimes should merit death in today’s society. When a society, to protect itself, has no choice but to kill in order to prevent future murders, the death penalty is viable. But in the United States today, we can confine a prisoner securely and safely. When this is true, I contend it’s immoral to exact the death penalty. To answer this post: > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > After all the appeals these people get - after years, sometimes _decades_ on death row - I think they are treated plenty fair. > > Sometimes I hear people say, “if even ONE person is ever wrongly executed, the whole system is evil.” Why? I’d say if only one person is wrongly executed, out of thousands, I’d say the system actually works pretty damn well. These people, by the way, never seem to give a damn about the thousands of people murdered by criminals, so I think their moral compass is a little fucked up. As has already been pointed out, DNA evidence has exonerated hundreds on wrongfully convicted persons. Is there any good reason to believe that, prior to the advent of DNA identification science, such persons were not simply put to death, lacking a way to show their innocence? Nor is DNA a panacea – when it exists, it may help prevent a wrongful conviction. But what of the crime where there is no DNA? Why do we believe that we should have such utter confidence in the verdict that we can kill a human being? And you’re right – those people never gave a damn about their own victims. But are you seriously contending we as a society should derive our moral guidance from murderers? ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/69 "2011-07-28T13:12:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > To answer the OP: no crimes should merit death in today’s society. When a society, to protect itself, has no choice but to kill in order to prevent future murders, the death penalty is viable. But in the United States today, we can confine a prisoner securely and safely. When this is true, I contend it’s immoral to exact the death penalty. > And you’re right – those people never gave a damn about their own victims. But are you seriously contending we as a society should derive our moral guidance from murderers? Not that it matters, but my respect for you just went up a fair number of notches. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/70 "2011-07-28T13:16:06Z")
While I’d be fine with personally executing Clifford Olson, Robert Pickton and Paul Bernardo, I don’t see the value is the death penalty returning to Canada, since the Americans present such a useful and informative cautionary example, with people on various death rows for decades. That’ll happen when the death penalty is applied half-heartedly, and I have no doubt it would happen here, too, so what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/71 "2011-07-28T13:31:06Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > They are, essentially, okay with a society in which it’s acknowledged that some totally innocent people will be murdered. I’m not saying they _like_ this situation, but they _accept_ it. They don’t go around saying, “there is something fundamentally wrong with our society that innocent people are killed.” They just accept it and figure it’s a risk of a free society and there’s nothing you can really do about it. There is something we can do to reduce the number of innocents killed by the government, use Life without Parole instead of the Death Penalty. You see, we can’t do much to stop individuals from committing murder, because there is no overarching force that controls their actions. The government has no such problem, when the law says no death penalty, the number of innocent people executed falls to zero, immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/72 "2011-07-28T13:36:58Z")
Serial killing Mass murder Spree killing Anyone who kills more than once or kills a bunch of people is simply too dangerous to live. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/73 "2011-07-28T13:37:26Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Or, maybe they think that the death penalty doesn’t do shit in deterring people from murdering innocents. I’m amongst people who don’t believe in the deterrance of death penalty. If a, say, 20 yo guy was weighing the risks before commiting a crime, he most certainly would be deterred by the idea of spending the rest of his life behind bars. In fact, even 20 years or maybe 10 would be enough for him not to commit it (let’s forget the probably non-existing rational criminal who thinks that a $ X millions gain is worth a 62.7% risk of being caught and sentenced to an average of 17.6 years). For instance, there are many murders commited for some ludicrously low amount of money, for which nobody thinking twice would take the risk to spend even 1 year in jail. I’m convinced that people commit crimes not because the penalty, whatever it is, isn’t enough (again, there might be exceptions, say some kind of white collar crime rarely prosecuted or petty crimes barely punished), but because they don’t look at the consequences or just stupidly assume they’re too good to be caught. A death penalty, even along with lenghty public torture won’t affect this mindset. ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/74 "2011-07-28T13:46:08Z")
> [@](#): > > What Crimes Should Be Punishable By the Death Penalty Premeditated murder and severe, life-affecting physical abuse / torture, only. War crimes that qualify too should come under thus stipulation. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/75 "2011-07-28T13:46:59Z")
None, unless the country in question cannot confine them safely. And I don’t think any developed countries fit the criteria. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/76 "2011-07-28T13:55:57Z")
None. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/77 "2011-07-28T13:58:01Z")
None, of course. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/78 "2011-07-28T15:34:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > This thread isn’t asking whether life without parole is better than the death penalty, it’s asking which crimes should be punishable by death. My opinion is that if a person deliberately and illegally takes the life of someone else, and thereby deprives that person and his family and loved ones of his life, then he deserves to lose his life. Period! It’s keeps the karmic scales in balance, provides an important element of closure for the victims’ loved ones, and is fair, appropriate and just. Given that in my opinion he loses his right to be drawing breath the moment he deprives someone else of their life, I give one tiny little hoot about his rehabilitation. He doesn’t deserve to be rehabilitated for one thing; and for another I don’t think this country is so short on productive citizens that whatever teensy benefit society would gain by his becoming one would come close to outweighing the injustice and grief that his still being alive causes. > > Another problem with life without parole is that it’s just a liberal Supreme Court decision away from being overturned. Liberals are all about “rehabilitation” and early release and I recall reading, in the days before conservatives managed to get life without parole passed as a means of actually keeping killers in prison, that because of this approach the average term served for murder in this country had shrunk to 14 years. _Fourteen frickin’ years!_ Imagine for a moment that someone had raped and killed your mother, wife or daugher, and fifteen years later, while you’re still grieving deeply, he was walking the streets free and happy and no longer paying any price for all he had deprived her of and everything he had deprived you of by taking her away. > > So I favor the death penalty in cases of absolutely no doubt for two reasons: 1) justice; and 2) to make sure that a liberal Supreme Court in the future doesn’t rule that actually making a killer serve a life term in prison constitutes cruel and unusual punishment. > > Sure it is. Allowing murderers to keep drawing breath is what is unjust, and giving them a free pass after a relatively short time in prison…which used to be the norm and still is in the case of convictions with the possibility of parole…is the greatest injustice of all. If the “liberals” on the supreme court are going to ban life imprisonment without parole, don’t you think they’d also ban the death penalty? How in the world can you assume that we’d keep the death penalty without also having the life imprisonment option? And you still haven’t cited any case in which someone was released and killed that would have been given the death penalty, which was your original argument. Who or how are we going to determine there is “no doubt”? You? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/79 "2011-07-28T15:39:11Z")
> [@martu](#): > > FFS ‘karmic scales’?? You are not qualified to comment on this question as you are obviously not living in reality. Personal insults to other posters aren’t allowed in any forum except the Pit. Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577/80 "2011-07-28T15:40:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And you’re right – those people never gave a damn about their own victims. But are you seriously contending we as a society should derive our moral guidance from murderers? This was going to be my argument against the death penalty. When society was young and simple, our justice was young and simple-An eye for an eye. If we are going to claim that our society has progressed morally, then we must embrace a justice system that matches that moral progression, or our society is a sham. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-crimes-should-be-punishable-by-the-death-penalty/590577.md?page=5)