# What cultures \*really\* do consider fat and/or obese women as beautiful or preferred? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925 "2010-07-16T16:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/21 "2010-07-16T21:04:11Z")
> [@Al\_Bundy](#): > > Here where I live the black community highly favors large women as in fat. All the talk shows have numerous callers deriding the fit/skinny women in favor of more rounded curves. I’d guess the ratio is 50:50. They express is in different ways-“more to love”, “women with curves”, “love handles”, “bigger the tush, harder the push”, and so forth with more expressive adjectives. To them Aretha Franklin is a beauty queen. I don’t think that’s true. Big breasts and big rump? Sure. I would say plenty of men do. But [the waistlines are still on the thin side.](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=black+men+magazine&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2) And, again, I think that’s basically the same shape most average joes, of any race, are attracted to. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/22 "2010-07-16T21:14:29Z")
Supposedly, some Polynesians admired rotundness as a sign of wealth. But I have a hard time believing that was the only body type considered beautiful in a culture that invented hula dancing. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/23 "2010-07-16T21:20:49Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I’m seeing Ruben’s [women](http://www.artchive.com/artchive/r/rubens/rubens_leucippus.jpg) more as [“lush”](http://jossefordart.typepad.com/art_journeys_and_conversa/images/earth-water.jpg) vs being truly obese. Certainly not “those that normally use mobility scooters to get around” as mentioned in the original post. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/24 "2010-07-16T21:21:34Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Supposedly Uganda has “fattening huts” where women can go to get fat before marriage. At least, that’s what the Internet and Jessica Simpson are telling me. We have those in the US, but women go there to get fat AFTER marriage. We call them Dairy Queen. (rim shot) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/25 "2010-07-16T21:55:53Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > I agree. What would future archaeologists say about our society if all they found were Fisher-Price Little People toys? But we live in a society of abundance, with arts and crafts everywhere. Paleolithic folks made very few enduring art objects. Given their limited resources and the amount of effort involved, it’s safe to assume that these objects were of far greater importance than toys. ---
**Author:** ![Da\_ICON](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Da\_ICON](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Da_ICON)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/26 "2010-07-16T23:54:59Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > It was true in western Europe only a couple hundred years ago. > > Look at the women in painting by Rubens, for example. Nowadays, they would be considered overweight, even close to obese. But back then, that was what was considered the height of feminine beauty. > > (Supposedly, it may trace back to the fact that most people didn’t get enough to eat, so they were positively skinny. A person being fat showed that they were well-off and better than the peasants.) Kind of like how years ago a pale caucasian equated money (because they didn’t have to work) and thus was more ‘attractive’? While today tanned skin is more prized? ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/27 "2010-07-17T00:45:14Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > What about Polynesian cultures, or the Maori? Anyone? My first thought was Tonga. Wikipedia mentions: “large bodies are often revered”. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/28 "2010-07-17T00:46:02Z")
Samoans can be pretty large, men and women, and I’ve heard that although politically getting in shape is encouraged, socially being large preferred. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/29 "2010-07-17T00:57:54Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > It was true in western Europe only a couple hundred years ago. > > Look at the women in painting by Rubens, for example. Nowadays, they would be considered overweight, even close to obese. But back then, that was what was considered the height of feminine beauty. > > (Supposedly, it may trace back to the fact that most people didn’t get enough to eat, so they were positively skinny. A person being fat showed that they were well-off and better than the peasants.) > [@Da\_ICON](#): > > Kind of like how years ago a pale caucasian equated money (because they didn’t have to work) and thus was more ‘attractive’? While today tanned skin is more prized? I read somewhere (no cite, my own memory) that beauty often consists of what’s difficult to attain. When reliable, consistent and abundant food sources are somewhat difficult to obtain in the general population, large bodies are beautiful because they represent a level of nutrition and eating that’s not common for the vast majority of people. When food is overly abundant (as in modern American society) and relatively cheap, it’s easier to overeat and be large, and therefore skinny is more beautiful because it’s harder for many people to resist the siren song of food. Similarly, it was more difficult to be pale when most work was out-of-doors, and paleness implied a leisure class. Now, with most of us working indoors during the day, tanning implies either a need to not work and therefore be outside sunning or playing, or the money to pay for a fake tan. Glossy perfect hair, smooth skin, etc. - all are difficult to obtain, and therefore of higher beauty. ---
**Author:** ![nuggz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@nuggz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nuggz)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/30 "2010-07-17T03:20:46Z")
Before I got married I visited my (now ex) husbands family, who was Egyptian. I was 5’3", 125 lbs. About a year after we married, we went back, and I was probably 145ish. EVERYONE made comments about how “fat” I was and how “happy” I must be and how “great” I looked. It had something to do with wealth=money=food=fat ---
**Author:** ![nuggz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@nuggz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nuggz)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/31 "2010-07-17T03:24:41Z")
(I must add: 145 is NOT fat… I’m 160, now… which is um, shitty… and I’d do anything to be back at my “fat” 145) ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/32 "2010-07-17T03:30:36Z")
My culture, whatever that is. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/33 "2010-07-17T03:55:35Z")
The people of Fiji apparently [considered big to be beautiful](http://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/20/world/study-finds-tv-alters-fiji-girls-view-of-body.html), at least until they started getting American TV shows. > [@New York Times](#): > > ‘‘You’ve gained weight’’ is a traditional compliment in Fiji, anthropologists say. > > In accordance with traditional culture in the South Pacific nation, dinner guests are expected to eat as much as possible. A robust, nicely rounded body is the norm for men and women. ‘‘Skinny legs’’ is a major insult. And ‘‘going thin,’’ the Fijian term for losing a noticeable amount of weight, is considered a worrisome condition. I doubt there’s ever been a culture where women literally too fat to walk were generally considered the most desirable, but I also don’t believe anyone on the SDMB has ever claimed this was the case. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/34 "2010-07-17T04:22:57Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > I read somewhere (no cite, my own memory) that beauty often consists of what’s difficult to attain. When reliable, consistent and abundant food sources are somewhat difficult to obtain in the general population, large bodies are beautiful because they represent a level of nutrition and eating that’s not common for the vast majority of people. When food is overly abundant (as in modern American society) and relatively cheap, it’s easier to overeat and be large, and therefore skinny is more beautiful because it’s harder for many people to resist the siren song of food. > > Similarly, it was more difficult to be pale when most work was out-of-doors, and paleness implied a leisure class. Now, with most of us working indoors during the day, tanning implies either a need to not work and therefore be outside sunning or playing, or the money to pay for a fake tan. > > Glossy perfect hair, smooth skin, etc. - all are difficult to obtain, and therefore of higher beauty. Exactly. The first thing that came to mind when the countries given as examples of bigger being more attractive was that these are poor nations, and being overweight is likely viewed as a sign of wealth or prestige. In one of the links, they even say outright that fat is associated with wealth. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/35 "2010-07-17T04:28:52Z")
Just an observation but when I was in Malta some years ago they had plump women advertising certain products such as Sprite on billboards etc. I don’t know much about Maltese culture or their biases with regard to weight. ---
**Author:** ![Khaki\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Khaki\_Campbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khaki_Campbell)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/36 "2010-07-17T07:50:03Z")
Most of these points don’t quite answer the OP, as we’re more talking about the “curvy” than the truly obese. Or maybe obesity (by today’s standards) didn’t happen at all in ancient times ? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/37 "2010-07-17T09:44:53Z")
> [@Khaki\_Campbell](#): > > Most of these points don’t quite answer the OP, as we’re more talking about the “curvy” than the truly obese. > Or maybe obesity (by today’s standards) didn’t happen at all in ancient times ? It happened, but you were generally so rich that no one cared. I wish I could remember who I’m thinking of, but I think they wound up being assumed pregnant. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/38 "2010-07-17T10:02:25Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Glossy perfect hair, smooth skin, etc. - all are difficult to obtain, and therefore of higher beauty. No, smooth skin is one area where all human cultures essentially agree. Pockmarks are a sign of disease. Whether most people have them or most people don’t, they’re never desirable. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/39 "2010-07-17T10:24:18Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > That link you supplied (without a word of commentary) is written by a nutjob racialist on a nutjob racialist website. Or perhaps you didn’t see the articles titled: “Negro penis size” and “Brave Jew world?” > > Utter trash. Well, I was in a rush and that seemed to be the most information rich page produced by a quick googling of the words “Hottentot Venus,” dredged from the depths of my memory. I did not take the time to do more than skim it very quickly for a few relevant points, or to vet it for racism, or to look at any any other pages on the site. Sorry. But, replete with nutty racism as it may be, the page does contain some information relevant to the OP’s question. The point is that at least some of the most desired women of this culture are distinctly fat (albeit in a quite peculiar way). If you want a less ideologically contaminated (but rather sketchy) account of the Hottentot Venus, there is always [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hottentot_Venus). ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925/40 "2010-07-17T10:51:28Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > But just becase Rubens liked the BBWs (or was only able to afford… robust girls to model for him) that doesn’t make it true for everybody else from his cultural background. > > That’s like deciding that the all the flemish liked’em [thin and bug-eyed](http://www.salvatorefiorillo.it/Ragazza_con_orecchino_di_perla(Vermeer).jpg) because you are just looking at Vermeer’s paintings. I’ve always wondered if paintings from previous eras really portray the ideal of beauty of the time, or if there was a (for lack of a better word) political aspect of it. Could it be that painters were encouraged to portray their patrons’ wives’ body type as the ideal, even if it wasn’t the _real_ ideal? I’ve read many footnotes in Shakespeare plays that point out how The Bard was pandering to his queen in this passage or another. Why would painting be any different? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-cultures-really-do-consider-fat-and-or-obese-women-as-beautiful-or-preferred/546925.md?page=3)