# What defines Punk Rock for you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 16, 2013, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396 "2013-08-16T08:00:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/82 "2017-12-01T15:50:31Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Haha! Are you trying to argue I play rock without having heard what I play!? I said I call it punk, you can call it rock for all I care. I’m satisfied with my current level of exposure to your music. I’m making rhetorical arguments in the thread about the OP, and not referring to how your set sounds. If you have no reason to call it punk except that you want to, nobody will stop you. But we are talking about it here, not just announcing it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/83 "2017-12-01T15:56:20Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Given a choice between REAL angry young blue collar musicians and rich/middle class intellectual kids PRETENDING to be angry young punks, bet on this: critics will always prefer the pretenders. > > Black Sabbath were genuine angry street kids. Tom Verlaine and Richard Hell were bored rich kids with intellectual pretensions. Which group did critics champion? The punk band? Makes sense to me. Punk was a fresh idea. I don’t know if I would call Black Sabbath a “fresh” idea… “Middle class kids make the best rock and roll.” - I forget who said it. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/84 "2017-12-01T16:56:54Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I’m satisfied with my current level of exposure to your music. I’m making rhetorical arguments in the thread about the OP, and not referring to how your set sounds. > > If you have no reason to call it punk except that you want to, nobody will stop you. But we are talking about it here, not just announcing it. Hahaha! There is no “current level of exposure”! You have _no_ exposure to music! :smack:😃 drad dog: Your problem is that you know nothing about punk, or music in general, but you really like having an opinion. You’re welcome to have it, but I don’t think you’ll be able to convince anyone who actually knows what they are talking about. :o ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/85 "2017-12-01T20:24:14Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > The punk band? Makes sense to me. > > Punk was a fresh idea. I don’t know if I would call Black Sabbath a “fresh” idea… > > “Middle class kids make the best rock and roll.” - I forget who said it. If Keith Emerson had called himself “Keith Baudelaire” or Rick Wakeman had called himself “Rick Wordsworth,” can you imagine how critics would have howled? How they would have screamed “Pompous and pretentious”? But it’s okay for a rich intellectual prep school wuss to name himself after a highfalutin’ poet as long as he pretends to be a street punk! ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/86 "2017-12-01T23:18:22Z")
Kieth Updike? Truman Wakeman? :o ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/87 "2017-12-02T01:55:53Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > The punk band? Makes sense to me. > > Punk was a fresh idea. I don’t know if I would call Black Sabbath a “fresh” idea… > > “Middle class kids make the best rock and roll.” - I forget who said it. So being part of laying the groundwork for heavy rock and metal isn’t considered fresh? I’ll tell you a couple of things: I have a working class background, I’m currently making below working class wages, I’m a socialist, and I just had two gigs. I’m having at least three gigs tomorrow and three on Sunday, maybe a couple on Monday. I don’t rehearse as I have no time. I record everything. Tonight we played for maybe ten audience-members. We got three more people to join in to play the coming days. Fuck if I don’t know what’s punk or not. My dad was a punk in the seventies. I grew up with punk. I heard [Butthole Surfers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fW0xpoGmEk) while still in the stomach. When I was two years old, I saw [Iggy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvRkJzVQBP0). My step dad knew [Turbonegro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCp1lE445NY) while they were still named [Nazipenis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJJ-R3u5yec). I grew up on[hot cars and spent contraceptives](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUuSYlGFkao&t=192s), and I finally got an [erection](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHcFWcnS94E) at 14 when I got an assrocket in the face. I celebrated by getting a pizza from [Pamparius](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVa6X6-_4tQ&t=1006s). I hope you come back and reply. You are entertaining, I’ll give you that. Or we could just take to the pit. That would probably be more fun. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/88 "2017-12-02T02:25:27Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > The punk band? Makes sense to me. > > Punk was a fresh idea. I don’t know if I would call Black Sabbath a “fresh” idea… > > “Middle class kids make the best rock and roll.” - I forget who said it. You somehow imagine yourself as John Peel, but for absolutely all of music history. You can probably name-drop a few pre-historic acts if you put your mind to it. A true cultural savant! I wish I could be your room-mate and just learn from you, instead of wasting 2000 euro’s a year on getting a degree in a shithole so I can know what I’m talking about. You want a gig by the way? Tomorrow to Monday. You skype and I’ll plug you in! You can proselytize your views for an hour or so, even dj! 😃 If you give me food and beer, I’ll happily stay at your place and just listen to you, fyi. I don’t have high expectations for my life. :o ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/89 "2017-12-02T02:47:50Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > If you give me food and beer, I’ll happily stay at your place and just listen to you, fyi. I don’t have high expectations for my life. :o That’s more a hippy thing than a punk one? “I’ll happily stay at your place if you give me food and beer” Sweet gig, if you can get it ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/90 "2017-12-02T03:10:05Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > That’s more a hippy thing than a punk one? > > “I’ll happily stay at your place if you give me food and beer” Sweet gig, if you can get it 😃 Nah, I need to DJ now and then. I’ll smoke outside, sleep on the couch and travel around a lot! And I’ll have to be able to commute to The Netherlands, you deal with that! I’ll make some food now and then… 😉 Tempting? US, right? Sounds like the place for me right now! ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/91 "2017-12-02T05:15:29Z")
https://www.youtube.com/embed/PeI6kczcRYI?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=PL55040946016DBFBC :eek: ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/92 "2017-12-02T11:18:41Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > If Keith Emerson had called himself “Keith Baudelaire” or Rick Wakeman had called himself “Rick Wordsworth,” can you imagine how critics would have howled? How they would have screamed “Pompous and pretentious”? > > But it’s okay for a rich intellectual prep school wuss to name himself after a highfalutin’ poet as long as he pretends to be a street punk! Man, that’s a cross you’ve been carrying for a long time. I am sorry critics are…you know, fookin’ _critics_. I don’t see what that has to do with one’s personal enjoyment of music. The Prog tribe remains stronger than ever. Yay, yes? **Plummy** , I know you’re having a good time, but yes, the premise that “Punk must sound unpracticed” is a personal POV not some Rule, and it is ignorant at best. No need to dwell on it if the argument isn’t there. It’s funny: on one side, Punk is critically-lauded street twaddle played by preppy wankers, and on the other side, it can’t sound too practiced or it doesn’t sound authentically Punk. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396/93 "2017-12-06T14:36:56Z")
Just to tenderize the horseflesh a little bit more. It is interesting to see what is essentially an opinion thread turn into a mosh pit about defining something that exists only as a label on an otherwise organic phenomenon. Beside the point, sorry, that’s not why I’m in here again. I stumbled across this youtube and it says everything I believe about Punk, in terms of artist motivation as well as overall presentation. I believe what these guys are saying and experience applies in a general sense to the 70s bands as well. No shit, it brought me to tears at a few points for its sheer honesty and humanity. [Enjoy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A23tjwVvUU) (Two members of _Black Lips_ addressing a college class about their journey & development as a band) I promise to stay out henceforth and let the thread sink. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-defines-punk-rock-for-you/666396.md?page=4)