# What Democratic candidate could have won against Trump in the 2016 elections? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 15, 2023, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699 "2023-04-15T04:40:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2023, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/101 "2023-04-16T11:54:55Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > It’s almost like “bigot” coalesced into a solid voting block after having been dormant for decades. FOX certainly catered to it, and in so doing exacerbated the extremism. I don’t think there’s any “almost” about it. Because racists and bigots had learned to be quiet for many years, a lot of us thought we’d finally gotten past all that. Hell, First Black President! Holy Shit! But then the first Black President scared the absolute shit out of the racists and bigots, and they started yammering again. And then everyone realized they were a bigger percentage of the population than we’d thought before. And lots of people decided that this was the demographic that they could use to win elections. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2023, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/102 "2023-04-16T11:59:28Z")
@Horatius, you just totally nailed it there. The racists had been driven ever so slightly underground, like buried about 1/2" down breathing through a snorkel while still holding hands. Anyone who thought they’d been reeducated or enlightened or had all died of old age by 2010 or whatever was simply misunderstanding the situation. Grossly misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/103 "2023-04-17T14:54:21Z")
This is the same kind of argument we get in gun debates. Nitpick the data to death. Fact is, I have data and you don’t. Best you can do is argue that my data is not perfect. It’s still a lot more than you got. I can provide more and some even better data but it’s not worth the effort. Bottom line is we can never know the answer to the OP. It can only ever be speculation on who might have beat Trump in 2016. But we can do better than mere speculation and I have done that. You just do not like the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/104 "2023-04-17T15:44:31Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Fact is, I have data and you don’t. Your “data” doesn’t pass the smell test. If anything like 28% of Clinton primary voters voted for McCain, McCain would have won in a landslide. And that’s because you’re comparing two wildly different things. Furthermore, @k9bfriender provided actual apples to apples data in post 51. You can’t hand wave that away while simultaneously accusing others of dismissing things because they don’t like the answer. Finally, CCES, your source for your Sanders/Trump numbers also collected data on the 2008 election. Why don’t you use the same source for your comparison rather than one that is so markedly different? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/105 "2023-04-17T15:51:30Z")
And I responded to @k9bfriender 's post. Bottom line is we KNOW Clinton lost. The OP asked who might have beat Trump in 2016. Without going to pure guessing the data shows, as best we can tell, that Sanders would have won. It’s not a 100% certainty but it is the best answer to the OP. It’s weird that you fight against this obvious answer so much. If you can show that someone else was more likely to win do tell…I’d like to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/106 "2023-04-17T17:07:25Z")
I never made any such claim so I am not obligated not support the claim you assigned to me. I just pointed out some serious flaws in the argument you were making. That was for your benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/107 "2023-04-17T17:10:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Without going to pure guessing the data shows, as best we can tell, that Sanders would have won. It’s not a 100% certainty but it is the best answer to the OP. That answer presumes that, if Sanders was the Democratic candidate, the Republican/Russian smearmasters wouldn’t have gone after him the way they went after Clinton. And they damn well would have, guaranteed. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/108 "2023-04-17T17:45:22Z")
Sanders was a primary darling. In a general election, he would have been slaughtered by any republican candidate. And if somehow he got elected, the democrats in Congress wouldn’t back his agenda, anyway. We don’t even have to talk about the other side. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/109 "2023-04-17T17:48:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > they damn well would have Far worse, far dirtier, far more vicious. If you think the 2016 campaign was bad for its misogyny, well, the anti-Semitism alone would have singed your eyebrows, let alone the rest of the filth and hatred they would have spewed, happily. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/110 "2023-04-17T19:08:20Z")
Sanders has been in politics for ages. I don’t buy that all of a sudden the opposition would have found new dirt on him that’d ruin him. He ran two presidential campaigns. Do you think Clinton or Biden were pulling their punches in this regard? But ok…per the OP who is your best guess? What evidence do you have for them? Or, do you posit that Clinton was the ONLY person who could have possibly beat Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/111 "2023-04-17T19:25:24Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Sanders has been in politics for ages. I don’t buy that all of a sudden the opposition would have found new dirt on him that’d ruin him. He ran two presidential campaigns. Do you think Clinton or Biden were pulling their punches in this regard? The dirt would be a combination of old dirt shown in the worst possible light, and manufactured dirt shoveled so hard and so fast he would never get a chance to put forth his agenda. the Russians/Republicans held back in 2016 only because wasn’t considered to be a front runner. If circumstances were different and Sanders had gotten the Democratic nod, people would be saying the saying the same damn thing now that they are currently saying about Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/112 "2023-04-17T19:28:18Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > But ok…per the OP who is your best guess? What evidence do you have for them? Or, do you posit that Clinton was the ONLY person who could have possibly beat Trump? if the Republicans hadn’t gotten into bed with the Russians, Clinton _or_ Sanders could have beaten him. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/113 "2023-04-17T19:40:27Z")
I’ll point out you have never answered the OP’s question and only dumped on legitimate answers with actual supporting data. If you have a better answer to the OPs question with data to support then please share it with us. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/114 "2023-04-17T19:45:41Z")
But that did happen and we know for a fact that Clinton lost. So, again, per the OP, what democratic candidate do YOU think could have won against Trump in the 2016 election? Personally, if I had to pick one out of thin air, I’d say Jon Stewart (I know he was not a candidate but I think we need to widen the field beyond actual candidates). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/115 "2023-04-17T19:49:02Z")
I thought my point was clear-With the Russian/Republican coalition in place, I don’t think _any_ Democratic nominee could have won. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/116 "2023-04-17T19:50:39Z")
I disagree. Clinton came within a whisker of winning. Almost a rounding error in the three states that doomed her. And she actually won the popular vote. I think there was plenty of room for Dems to win. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/117 "2023-04-17T19:53:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The dirt would be a combination of old dirt shown in the worst possible light, and manufactured dirt shoveled so hard and so fast he would never get a chance to put forth his agenda. the Russians/Republicans held back in 2016 only because wasn’t considered to be a front runner. I don’t buy it. It took them decades of slander to get to where Clinton was in 2016. If they could produce the same level of slander in just a few months, how did Obama ever survive? Sure, they ramped up slandering Clinton in the lead-up to the election, but that was all received with the mindset, “Yeah, that tracks, it’s just like everything else we’ve heard about her since the 90s!” But would that have worked with Sanders? How many people really knew anything about him prior to 2016? It would be a bit harder to sell that. “Why am I only now hearing about how much of a dirty Jew Commie America-hater this guy is?” Propaganda like that takes _years_ to really soak into a person’s brain. Even Hitler had to take years to ramp up the antisemitism to the point he could start exterminating them. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/118 "2023-04-17T20:01:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’ll point out you have never answered the OP’s question and only dumped on legitimate answers with actual supporting data. I never claimed to have an answer to the OP. I pointed out a giant flaw in the data you were using, and I even pointed out where you could get the proper data to make the argument you are making. I did these things for your benefit so that you could correct your mistake to strengthen your argument or at least stop making a claim that is obviously untrue thereby weakening your entire case. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/119 "2023-04-17T20:07:38Z")
I disagree completely. It is still data. They are still data points. And they are legitimate data points. Not ones made up. Your disagreement was some finesse about what the numbers told us. And that’s fine. It is still infinitely more data than you had to refute it. I am trying to help you out here since you seem unclear about what is being said. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/120 "2023-04-17T20:10:29Z")
Dude, I pointed out to where the data is for you to do an apples to apples comparison. CCES supplied your Sanders/Trump data point, and CCES did their survey for the 2008 election. Go get that data to fill a giant hole in your argument or keep on doing your thing. Makes no difference to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699.md?page=7)