# What Democratic candidate could have won against Trump in the 2016 elections? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 15, 2023, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699 "2023-04-15T04:40:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/121 "2023-04-17T20:15:04Z")
Dude…you have no other argument at all. No other data. Nothing. The best you have is to poke tiny holes in actual information provided. Do better. Answer the OP. Even if my data is not perfect it is still information that answers the OP. Maybe the percentages are a bit off but likely close enough and they tell a story. Something you have NOT done. You have not answered the OP. It seems by your reckoning Clinton was the only person who could win. But she didn’t. I’m done with this argument. I believe I have said my peace (piece?..not clear on that one). ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/122 "2023-04-17T20:16:50Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It seems by your reckoning Clinton was the only person who could win. I never made this claim. I merely pointed out a flaw in your argument and provided a helpful tip to correct it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2023, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/123 "2023-04-17T20:20:03Z")
Moderating: > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m done with this argument. I believe I have said my peace. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I never made this claim. I merely pointed out a flaw in your argument and provided a helpful tip to correct it. I think your points have been beaten to death. Let’s drop this line of discussion, as you, @Whack-a-Mole, said you would. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/124 "2023-04-18T16:26:45Z")
I made a whole thread back in 2016 about why Bernie would have been a far stronger candidate, you can look it up if you want. I think he would have won, but there’s no way to KNOW, and I’m not interested in arguments that are just dueling counterfactuals. And if you’re not talking about Bernie, then you’re going even more counterfactual by imagining the nomination going to someone who wasn’t even running for it. In that case, I will argue that the Democrats blew it by not nominating Jesus Christ. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/125 "2023-04-18T16:29:50Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I will argue that the Democrats blew it by not nominating Jesus Christ. He was a bit hung up at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/126 "2023-04-18T16:33:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > He was a bit hung up at the time. On the other hand, unlike many candidates, he has a reputation for following through on the miracles he promises. If Jesus promises you “free college”, by His Father you’re getting a full ride! Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/127 "2023-04-18T16:36:14Z")
Vote Jesus! Free College and Universal Health Care For All! (in the afterlife) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/128 "2023-04-18T16:41:12Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > This is what would have been everywhere had Bernie been the nominee, I’m not sure it matters. People HATED Donald Trump too. Trump is both the most beloved and most reviled President of my lifetime. Trump won because while people despised him, many also loved him; Clinton really didn’t have as many people were were super happy about her. That’s not true of Sanders, who is disliked by many (not hated the way Trump is, though) but has an extraordinarily fervent following. Furthermore, Sanders specifically had a lot of support in the rest belt states Clinton blew the election in. If a few more people in Idaho and Mississippi don’t vote for him, it makes no difference anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/129 "2023-04-18T16:49:19Z")
It’s possible Sanders might have lost by a bigger margin than Clinton did, but in the current environment I don’t think a dead skunk could get less than 45% if a major party nominated it. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/130 "2023-04-18T17:09:49Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Sanders, who is disliked by many […] but has an extraordinarily fervent following. Bernie Sanders’s support came mainly from [young people](https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/07/age-and-race-democratic-primary). Young people have a [poor track record](https://ourworldindata.org/usa-electoral-turnout) of actually going to the polls and voting. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/131 "2023-04-18T18:39:00Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > My suspicion is that the election eve announcement that the FBI was re-opening the email investigation led a lot of people to lose interest in voting or support for Clinton due to a sort of ‘scandal fatigue’. Yeah, the Comey Memo was mentioned as one of the three main reasons Hillary lost. The other two were poor campaigning for electoral votes and the relentless attacks by BernieBros etc, which meant many voted 3rd party or stayed home. If it had been another, there would have been no Comey Memo, and who knows about electoral vote campaigning but the attacks from the “far” left would still be an issue. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am hard pressed to see how Sanders would have done worse. The GOP and Kremlin hate and propaganda machine was hitting Clinton hard and Sanders hardly at all. Once they focused on Sanders, it would be all over. Moderate Dems would not vote for a “card carrying commie”- and if you don’t think the Kremlin could fake up such a card then you are living in a cave. Throw in a few pictures of Bernie at a Communist rally, and Bernie would be done. Look at Kerry, Dukakis, etc. sure they won quite a few popular votes but Dukaksi lost in a landslide in the EC. > [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > After the big Banking Crisis, she met, behind closed doors, with reps from the Big Banks. See, while Hillary did take speech $ from the Big Banks, the GOP candidates _were backed by the Big Banks._ This was the sort of thing the BernieBros spread. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/132 "2023-04-18T18:40:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > See, while Hillary did take speech $ from the Big Banks, the GOP candidates _were backed by the Big Banks._ The distinction is…? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/133 "2023-04-18T18:47:31Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The distinction is…? You dont know? Look, you can hire someone to speak without supporting their views and you can accept a speaking check without supporting their views. And a $10000 check for a speech is not on a par with millions spent for campaign contributions. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > The dirt would be a combination of old dirt shown in the worst possible light, and manufactured dirt shoveled so hard and so fast he would never get a chance to put forth his agenda. the Russians/Republicans held back in 2016 only because wasn’t considered to be a front runne The GOP held back mainly as he was doing their job for them, hurting Clintons chances. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/134 "2023-04-18T19:56:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You dont know? Look, you can hire someone to speak without supporting their views and you can accept a speaking check without supporting their views. And a $10000 check for a speech is not on a par with millions spent for campaign contributions. $10,000? > **[Clintons have made more than $25 million for speaking since January 2014](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clintons-earn-more-than-25-million-in-speaking-fees-since-january-2014/2015/05/15/52605fbe-fb4d-11e4-9ef4-1bb7ce3b3fb7_story.html)** > > Marco Rubio reports a far more modest financial portfolio and at least $450,000 in mortgage debt. > **[Here's Who Paid Hillary Clinton $22 Million in Speaking Fees](https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-04-22/heres-who-paid-hillary-clinton-22-million-in-speaking-fees)** > > Clinton's speaking fees at corporations have been the source of much political discussion. [https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/hillary-clinton-bill-clinton-paid-speeches/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/hillary-clinton-bill-clinton-paid-speeches/index.html) > **[Hillary Clinton Made More in 12 Speeches to Big Banks Than Most of Us Earn in...](https://theintercept.com/2016/01/08/hillary-clinton-earned-more-from-12-speeches-to-big-banks-than-most-americans-earn-in-their-lifetime/)** > > By giving just a dozen speeches to Wall Street banks, private equity firms, and other financial corporations, Clinton made $2,935,000 from 2013 to 2015. > **[Hillary Helps a Bank—and Then It Funnels Millions to the Clintons](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/)** > > The Wall Street Journal’s eyebrow-raising story of how the presidential candidate and her husband accepted cash from UBS without any regard for the appearance of impropriety that it created. > **[Here are all the six-figure speaking fees that Hillary Clinton received after...](https://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-all-the-six-figure-speaking-fees-that-hillary-clinton-received-after-leaving-the-state-dept-2015-5?op=1)** > > The Washington Post, Politico, and Time can't seem to agree on how much Clinton got paid for certain speeches. > **[Hillary Wasn't 'Offered' Those Speaking Fees. She Demanded Them](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hillary-not-truthful-abou_b_9185412)** > > Hillary is veering from the truth when she suggests her $225,000 per speech fee, paid three times by Goldman Sachs, was "what they offered." It was not what they offered -- it was what Team Hillary demanded. Et cetera, ad nauseam. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/135 "2023-04-20T01:00:00Z")
Goldman Sachs paid Hillary Clinton $675,000 for a speech. Clinton refused to release what was said which definitely looked shady and hurt her image. Of course, the contents of the speech were eventually leaked and we find she said almost nothing of interest. Did GS pay Clinton $675,000 to share her deep wisdom or were they paying for access? Seems the latter to me. [https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/goldman-sachs-paid-hillary-675000-for-this/](https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/goldman-sachs-paid-hillary-675000-for-this/) ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/136 "2023-04-20T01:23:27Z")
Bet she didn’t even have to bother with the speech. ---
**Author:** ![BobR\_421](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@BobR\_421](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobR_421)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/137 "2023-04-20T16:28:48Z")
Another candidate is the wrong view. -Hillary won the popular vote. -Her candidacy was plenty strong. It was reported that only 19% of those aged 18-26 bothered to vote. Had this group spent 3 hours voting instead of 3 days rioting, Hillary would have won in a landslide. ``` This should from the beginning have been touted as an example of why your vote DOES count. ``` And the interest should be in why the young resist the vote. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/138 "2023-04-23T01:24:36Z")
I wonder if Clinton lost voters who didn’t believe in a female President ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/139 "2023-04-23T01:43:42Z")
> [@BobR\_421](#): > > Had this group spent 3 hours voting instead of 3 days rioting, Hillary would have won in a landslide. If the folks who were rioting were spending their time voting instead, Clinton would have lost by even more. Unless you think the Hell’s Angels, the Proud Boys, the Boogaloo Boys, and the various city police departments skew Democratic? ---
**Author:** ![BobR\_421](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@BobR\_421](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobR_421)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699/140 "2023-04-23T22:53:39Z")
You midunderstand. You are referring to jan6 attack on the capitol. I am referring to the riots in many many American cities after Donald Trump was declared the winner in 2016. Many businesses across the country were destroyed by young hooligans who couldn’t bother to vote. That year the 18-26 year old vote percentage was reported at 19%. I stand by what I say. Three days rioting vs 3 hours to vote. Thank you, Robert G. Richards II [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-democratic-candidate-could-have-won-against-trump-in-the-2016-elections/982699.md?page=8)