# What did Hillary accomplish as Secretary of State? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734 "2015-08-13T13:10:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/21 "2015-08-15T02:40:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The effects of our war in Iraq was disastrous for most Iraqis. For Afghanistan and Libya it seems to be much more mixed, and I don’t know whether it was more positive than negative (but I’d lean negative). > > So what’s your point? These wars seem to have been bad for everyone except the groups that gained power in the vacuums that were created. My point is that Libya was clearly a war, and we’re clearly at war in eight other countries. It would be inaccurate to say that Clinton kept us out of war. She kept us out of ground wars, and that’s only true as long as we keep denying the reality that we can’t win without ground troops. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/22 "2015-08-15T02:41:25Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Clinton spent most of her tenure restoring relationships destroyed by the greedy and bloodthirsty, neocon republicans. Okay, I’ll bite. Which of our friends or neutral countries do we have better relationships with now than before? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/23 "2015-08-15T03:26:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Okay, I’ll bite. Which of our friends or neutral countries do we have better relationships with now than before? …all of them? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/24 "2015-08-15T04:07:20Z")
Not Britain. We had a better relationship with them under Bush. Too close, actually, for British voters’ tastes. Not Obama or Clinton’s fault, but given that they are our closest ally and Obama is more popular with British voters an effort probably could have been made to build a relationship as close as that between Blair and Bush. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/25 "2015-08-15T04:34:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not Britain. We had a better relationship with them under Bush. Too close, actually, for British voters’ tastes. Not Obama or Clinton’s fault, but given that they are our closest ally and Obama is more popular with British voters an effort probably could have been made to build a relationship as close as that between Blair and Bush. You seem to be contradicting yourself. _ **Bush** _ had a great relationship with _ **Blair** _, for sure, but not the British people, which is why Blair became so unpopular and was driven to an ignominious resignation. Bush was the reason American tourists in Europe were sewing Canadian flag emblems on their backpacks. Obama is the guy who made the US popular again all over. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/26 "2015-08-15T04:46:00Z")
Actually, the picture is mixed: > **[Chapter 1: The American Brand](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2014/07/14/chapter-1-the-american-brand/)** > > A country’s brand is a valued commodity, especially when that nation is the world’s largest economic and strategic power. And, in 2014, America’s image remains strong in much of the world. We are more popular in Europe, except for Russia, where we are deeply unpopular. In the Arab world, we are actually less popular. The rest of the world hasn’t seen much of a change. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/27 "2015-08-15T04:47:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > She has a resume, but was she particularly exceptional either as a Senator or SecState? I’ve seen no particular evidence that she was anything out of the ordinary to justify her elevation to the Presidency. The same could be said for every president since Johnson, or arguably, Eisenhower. The American people (or technically the Electoral College) has selected for a succession of stunningly mediocre candidates for the position of chief executive of the nation. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/28 "2015-08-15T12:56:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > My point is that Libya was clearly a war, and we’re clearly at war in eight other countries. It would be inaccurate to say that Clinton kept us out of war. She kept us out of ground wars, and that’s only true as long as we keep denying the reality that we can’t win without ground troops. In general we can’t win, and in fact usually lose in a much more costly way, with ground troops. It boggles my mind that you continue to advocate for ground troops after the Iraq war. How would it make the situation better anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/29 "2015-08-15T13:01:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, the picture is mixed: > > [Views of the United States and American Foreign Policy](http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/14/chapter-1-the-american-brand/) > > We are more popular in Europe, except for Russia, where we are deeply unpopular. In the Arab world, we are actually less popular. The rest of the world hasn’t seen much of a change. We’re generally more popular in Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Americas, while opinions in the Arab world are mixed, compared to the Bush years. So it’s better for the most part and with a few exceptions, per your link. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/30 "2015-08-15T13:49:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In general we can’t win, and in fact usually lose in a much more costly way, with ground troops. > > It boggles my mind that you continue to advocate for ground troops after the Iraq war. How would it make the situation better anywhere? If we’re at war and it takes ground troops to accomplish the mission, then you use ground troops. If the mission isn’t worth that it shouldn’t be undertaken in the first place. We agree on that part at least. This bombing only shit needs to end. Either go to war or do not go to war. The problem with air power is that we use it too much because it seems cheap to us, and liberals are not helping by forgetting that we’re even at war because body bags aren’t coming home. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/31 "2015-08-15T14:15:09Z")
When are you enlisting? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/32 "2015-08-15T14:39:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If we’re at war and it takes ground troops to accomplish the mission, then you use ground troops. If the mission isn’t worth that it shouldn’t be undertaken in the first place. We agree on that part at least. Ground troops wouldn’t accomplish this mission. They would only make things worse and weaken America. > [@](#): > > This bombing only shit needs to end. Either go to war or do not go to war. I’m fine with ending the “bombing only shit”, but not if the alternative is ground troops. As far as your second sentence, no – just _don’t go to war_. Bombing is bad, and I’d prefer usually we didn’t do it at all, but ground troops are _much much worse_. Maybe you disagree, but are you really not getting that my point is _ground troops are necessarily much, much worse_ in terms of outcome? > [@](#): > > The problem with air power is that we use it too much because it seems cheap to us, and liberals are not helping by forgetting that we’re even at war because body bags aren’t coming home. Still better than ground troops. No thank you to dead Americans, weakened America, less popular America, poorer America, and strengthened enemies. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/33 "2015-08-15T15:21:22Z")
You think bombing people and being unwilling to face the enemy eye to eye makes countries like us or respect us? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/34 "2015-08-15T16:43:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You think bombing people and being unwilling to face the enemy eye to eye makes countries like us or respect us? Certainly more so than ground troops. Even better would be no US bombing at all, in most cases. I’m leaning towards the idea that we should leave ISIS alone, while logistically supporting our allies who choose to engage them. Let the region deal with what is a regional problem. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2015, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/35 "2015-08-16T07:02:14Z")
So you don’t believe the President’s rationale for war? He gave a very strong speech when the bombing started explaining why we had to fight. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2015, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/36 "2015-08-16T12:08:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So you don’t believe the President’s rationale for war? He gave a very strong speech when the bombing started explaining why we had to fight. No, I don’t. Has that not been clear? I’d prefer no bombing at all, but I’ll take bombing over ground troops any day. And fewer ground troops is better than more ground troops, if it comes to that. Fewer chances of dead Americans is my goal here. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/37 "2015-08-17T07:46:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You mean didn’t start a war with US casuallties. We’re bombing a lot more countries now than we did under Bush, and done regime change of a longtime US enemy to boot. How many of them did we start? And on what basis? > [@adaher](#): > > Not Britain. We had a better relationship with them under Bush. Too close, actually, for British voters’ tastes. Not Obama or Clinton’s fault, but given that they are our closest ally and Obama is more popular with British voters an effort probably could have been made to build a relationship as close as that between Blair and Bush. > [@wolfpup](#): > > You seem to be contradicting yourself. _ **Bush** _ had a great relationship with _ **Blair** _, for sure, but not the British people, which is why Blair became so unpopular and was driven to an ignominious resignation. Bush was the reason American tourists in Europe were sewing Canadian flag emblems on their backpacks. Obama is the guy who made the US popular again all over. Exactly. The idea that Bush was more popular with Britain than Obama is so far removed from reality that it may involve fairies and unicorns. Bush was _loathed_ in the UK, and as noted Blair’s linkage to Bush dragged him down to the point where Blair’s scorned by all sides of the political spectrum these days, and many Labour voters still consider him to be an actual war criminal. Obama is far more popular - even the Queen likes him. I spent years getting asked by British people how on Earth the US could have elected someone as stupid as Bush, and now they’re asking me how someone like Donald Trump could be a serious contender for President. So if you want the US to return to being the laughingstock of the world: bring on President Trump. But you know who did much prefer Bush over Obama? **Al Qaeda**. Bush’s rhetoric was the best recruiting tool they could have hoped for. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Long, slightly interesting article, which I assume was primarily created by her operatives/fans. Summing it all up, she accomplished nothing. It’s not like other SoSs were very accomplished either, but it’s hardly the kind of thing to call on as experience that makes her presidential material. But she can say “I didn’t fuck anything up really bad”. Ah, the “it’s not blatantly partisan my way, so it must be blatantly partisan the other way” argument. Never gets old. As noted above, there was a lot of damage to repair in terms of our relationships with other countries. There are still a lot of issues, but things are much better than they were in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/38 "2015-08-17T09:51:40Z")
she managed to get other European governments to honour America once again, and convinced people to get rid of Qaddafi. Thats a lot, given how most of Obama’s foreign policy is crap. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/39 "2015-08-17T16:38:26Z")
She’s not Republican, that’s enough for me to vote for her ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734/40 "2015-08-17T17:13:03Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Ah, the “it’s not blatantly partisan my way, so it must be blatantly partisan the other way” argument. Never gets old. > > As noted above, there was a lot of damage to repair in terms of our relationships with other countries. There are still a lot of issues, but things are much better than they were in 2008. Nothing of the sort. She’s just another SoS. If she wants to run on her accomplishments in that job she’ll look no better than anyone else did. Improving relationships with other countries after the Bush mispresidency is hardly an accomplishment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-hillary-accomplish-as-secretary-of-state/727734.md?page=3)